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Thread: Webley pistol power conundrum

  1. #1
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    Webley pistol power conundrum

    This has been on my mind for a few days.

    In the world of spring rifle tuning, we now know, to put it too simply, that the route to higher power is through greater sewpt volume, longer stroke, and efficient flow dynamics through the transfer port. Just bunging in a bigger/stiffer/Ox spring increases recoil much more than power (which sometimes even goes down).

    Still with me?

    Now, transfer that to classic Webley pistols.

    The Senior has slightly greater stroke and therefore swept volume than the Mk1. And makes more power.

    But the Premier has slightly longer stroke than the Senior. But is not as powerful.

    And the Hurricane/Tempest appears to have about the same swept volume as the others, but is potentially much more powerful.

    Chris Thrale's book lists the .22" varities at:

    Mk1: 273/293 (NM)
    Senior: 330
    Premier: 310
    Hurricane/Tempest: 330 - but "with proper lubrication and adjustment" 410, and chrono-tested at 400 in US spec with a different spring.

    Can you really get a 25% power increase in a spring pistol basically by shoving a more powerful spring in?

  2. #2
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    Did C Thale do a book on Webley pistols as well as his rifles one? - or are you getting mixed up w' the Gordon Bruce one on their pistols? Think the Bruce Pistols book says the US models had a stronger spring.

    ATB

    Bru.
    Webley Mk3 x2, Falcon & Junior rifles, HW35x2, AirSporter x2, Gold Star, Meteors x2, Diana 25. SMK B19, Webley Senior, Premier, Hurricane x 2, Tempest, Dan Wesson 8", Crosman 3576, Legends PO8.

  3. #3
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    Maybe the transfer port on a pistol is large enough in proportion to the relatively small spring?

    The Turkish Tempest is understood to have a stronger spring (coils have a bit more meat on them, circular section as opposed to flat on the original Webley spring). The one I had was powerful and snappy...so much so I sold it

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by laverdabru View Post
    Did C Thale do a book on Webley pistols as well as his rifles one? - or are you getting mixed up w' the Gordon Bruce one on their pistols? Think the Bruce Pistols book says the US models had a stronger spring.

    ATB

    Bru.
    Quite right. Got the wrong Webley expert (own both books).

  5. #5
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    Webley books

    Got the Bruce, the Thales addressed to my better 1/2 arrived today - but I'm not allowed to see it till 25/12...
    Webley Mk3 x2, Falcon & Junior rifles, HW35x2, AirSporter x2, Gold Star, Meteors x2, Diana 25. SMK B19, Webley Senior, Premier, Hurricane x 2, Tempest, Dan Wesson 8", Crosman 3576, Legends PO8.

  6. #6
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    Webley pistol power

    I've fitted a heavy duty (unknown make) spring into a Webley Premier pistol, and the velocity was quite a bit higher than with the standard Webley spring. However, when cocking it I thought something might break (including my wrist!) and the recoil was violent. It goes without saying that all the components in the gun need to be balanced, so that the velocity is adequate without undue stress on the pistol or shooter.
    Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    I've fitted a heavy duty (unknown make) spring into a Webley Premier pistol, and the velocity was quite a bit higher than with the standard Webley spring. However, when cocking it I thought something might break (including my wrist!) and the recoil was violent. It goes without saying that all the components in the gun need to be balanced, so that the velocity is adequate without undue stress on the pistol or shooter.
    And that's what intruiges me. The Hurricane/Tempest is basically a Premier (originally planned as the Premier MkIII/Superpremier). I can't quite work out what they did to make it generate and cope with the higher power.

  8. #8
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    Apparently, the high-powered US 'Beeman' imports had Titan mainsprings fitted. Info from here: http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....rricane-ft-lbs

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    Pistol power

    Another way of looking at the velocity figures is "why was the Premier lower powered than the other models?" When the Premier was first produced, there were lots of problems with the new material being used for the piston washers. This is one reason why there are so many "letter" versions of this model ie A, B etc.
    Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.

  10. #10
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    Turning up a thin lipped polyurethane piston seal for these pistols makes an improvement to performance. Just done this to replace some knackered old ones.

    Baz
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  11. #11
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    Have you tried machining a piston for an o ring seal in these Baz? I guess that could give the most volume, if the cylinders are true enough? Phil ��

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    Phil, no, have not done that as I do not own one myself, these are all repair jobs. Sounds like something to try.Anything is better than the solid hard blue seals you find in some Webleys. Funny enough I just had to sort out a BSA Mercury rifle with the same O ring setup on the piston. These are one of the worst rifles for having jammed pistons, especially if they have a nylon piston head.

    Baz
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  13. #13
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    I am currently experiencing both these issues... Ive sent a drawing to custom air seals australia - they are going to make up some seals for the tempest.
    I also have a mk1 mercury here that I had to hammer the piston out of. Im making a delrin oring carrier for it just now, and will long stroke it at the same time - I had to cut down the peg on the end of the piston.
    Donald

  14. #14
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    Without using quotations, I think if you lengthen the stroke, the back ring of the piston will hit the linkage when it comes forwards.
    I suggested to someone to get the boss turned off a Hurricane piston and get it tapped and he made and fitted a leather washer.
    Cooler than Mace Windu with a FRO, walking into Members Only and saying "Bitches, be cool"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    Have you tried machining a piston for an o ring seal in these Baz? I guess that could give the most volume, if the cylinders are true enough? Phil ��
    If I grind an O ring groove in the piston head to get more volume by removing the piston seal, I would have to remove some material from the end of the piston to install a polyurethane buffer a la FWB 65 piston. If not it would be metal smashing against metal. Still possible I think. Will check next time I get one in.

    Baz
    BE AN INDEPENDENT THINKER, DON'T FOLLOW THE CROWD

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