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Thread: Older pcps and out of date cylinders.

  1. #1
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    Older pcps and out of date cylinders.

    I was looking at a nice Feinwerkbau P34 the other day, and the cylinders are out of date.

    Now I know this is a problem for national and international competitors, but is it really a problem for casual users?

    How old does a cylinder really have to be before it needs to be binned as dangerous?

    I imagine modern cylinders for later models can be fitted to earlier guns, but the original P34 cylinders are rather nice and compliment the shape of the pistol.

    I'm not just thinking about Feinwerkbau pistols, but also Walther lp 200 and 300s and Steyr LP1and 5s, etc.

    Am I correct in thinking that new cylinders will fit these older guns?
    Arthur

    I wish I was in the land of cotton.

  2. #2
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    Certainly with the Steyr's the cylinders are the same, in all honesty I've never had one checked at any comp, I think it is only ISSF that require checks. I have Steyr ones that are out of date as well as new ones and use all of them as and when I need to, all are in good condition with no dents or damage so I've never been concerned about their safety or ever had a problem. I actually purchased a new one 2 years ago for comps, no one's ever even looked at it. All that said I'm not an expert so these are only my personal thoughts.
    Steyr LP10, Steyr LP5,
    Vintage Collection - Walther LP53, HW77k Venom, BSF S20 Match, Original 35, ASI Target plus lots more

  3. #3
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    There has already been some fairly well detailed threads about this exact same subject over the last few years on in this target section of the BBS.

    If you take a look and read them you can take advantage of some very helpful contributions that have already been made.

    As a short summary - in most peoples opinion it makes very little difference to anyone unless you plan to enter some of the live open competitions that specify "in date" cylinders as being a compulsory requirement.

    It is not even that useful when trying to age date a used pistol as cylinders are so easily exchanged or swapped between pistols (or rifles).
    Last edited by zooma; 25-11-2015 at 05:12 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the advice from you both.
    Arthur

    I wish I was in the land of cotton.

  5. #5
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    How far away is the land of cotton?
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    How far away is the land of cotton?
    Why do you want to know?

    Are you thinking of going?
    Nowhere to go ........in no hurry to get there; www.rivington-riflemen.uk----- well I suppose it is somewhere to go.... founded by I.J. - let down by the tainted blood scandal

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    How far away is the land of cotton?
    It's way down south in Dixie.
    Arthur

    I wish I was in the land of cotton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur John Smithsplease View Post
    It's way down south in Dixie.
    I thought that Lancashire was the cotton capitol or England. John F.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by himself View Post
    I thought that Lancashire was the cotton capital of England. John F.
    Not after the technology was given to India
    Nowhere to go ........in no hurry to get there; www.rivington-riflemen.uk----- well I suppose it is somewhere to go.... founded by I.J. - let down by the tainted blood scandal

  10. #10
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    Cylinder dates are only relevant if you are shooting in ISSF matches. The 'Pressure Vessels Regs' aren't applicable as they only concern such vessels used for work (as a statutory instrument under H+S at work act). Anything else is only classed as advisory or 'best practice'.
    Fierynick

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  11. #11
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    out of date

    Quote Originally Posted by Fierynick View Post
    Cylinder dates are only relevant if you are shooting in ISSF matches. The 'Pressure Vessels Regs' aren't applicable as they only concern such vessels used for work (as a statutory instrument under H+S at work act). Anything else is only classed as advisory or 'best practice.
    Mmm Walther would only quote for a factory repair including a new cylinder for my wifes Hammerli,the gun had a quoted cylinder replacement life in the handbook when new of 20yrs,it wasnt that old.we have a leaflet pinned in our clubroom that is from the manufactures.Walther/fwb/Anshutz etc. saying that cylinders should be replaced at 10yrs of age.but as you rightly state these cylinders come under a different classification in the EU pressure regulations laws.i dont think you can actually pressure test them like a divers bottle ?but the schrader valve could be removed and the cylinder crack and visualy inspected.
    Best practice appears to be visual,good condition ,OK.ten yrs old maybe a new one?as no one can test them.
    My local gunsmith will fail any cylinder that visually fails regardless of age.
    Don

  12. #12
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    Gwyn
    I've resisted this for a long time, this has been the subject of long discussion on every forum internationaly for years, and I like many others including in offialdom who just wish it would quietly get forgotten, sadly there is always some petty official or jobsworth who keeps resurecting it.

    This has all come about because of one (yes just one!) clearly faulty manufactured cylinder failing, one example many years ago, and accepted as a manufacturing fault, and the whole product run was withdrawn.
    Plus a few cases of morons either filling with substances other than air, or overfilling , i.e 200 bar filled to 300. Even those only blew out the valves, the cylinders are over kill to the extreme. The manufacturers, and those manufacturers in private even agree that there is no need for what has resulted, and they are just responding to rear end covering from their lawyers, so they will now only replace cylinders, and they have set an arbitrary level at 10 years.

    It's become an embarasment to the ISSF who have changed the rules several times on this issue, first to place them in equipment control inspection jurisdiction, and then to remove them when a lawyer pointed out that by passing an inside 10 year cylinder at equipment control the inspector was taking responsibilty for it being OK! They have now placed it as the shooters responsibilty and any guidance an equipment control inspector gives is advisory.

    It is not covered by pressure vesssel regs, in the EU, or here, or in the States, because it is too low a volume, it is no more dangerous that the gun itself or the regulator which also contains the same pressure and is never tested! No gunsmith is qualified to test it visibly or otherwise, any one who is will laugh at it. This has all turned into a Jobsworth charter!!

    An under 10 year cylinder is the same risk, realisticaly there is none, unless some moron trying for a Darwin Award (natural selection?) fills it with hydrogen, over pressure or adjusts it with a hammer, and then a new cylinder is just the same.

    If the cylinder does not leak and is not visibly damaged don't bother about it. If it is change it. Unless you are shooting in an ISSF event at world level forget it.
    Good shooting
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

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