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Thread: First BP pistol advice

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    First BP pistol advice

    8 years and over 9k posts on this forum and i never saw this section before! I have sent Tac a pm, but I'll throw this open to all.

    I'm after a BP pistol, it must be pre 1900 in design, and it will be for plinking/display. I quite like the look of the Pietta and Uberti 1858 5.5" models, but thats mainly as they most closely resemble the Peacemaker!

    What should i look out for! Are there other makes to consider? And any other advice you think i need.

    Thanks in advance
    God rest ye jelly mental men

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post
    8 years and over 9k posts on this forum and i never saw this section before! I have sent Tac a pm, but I'll throw this open to all.

    I'm after a BP pistol, it must be pre 1900 in design, and it will be for plinking/display. I quite like the look of the Pietta and Uberti 1858 5.5" models, but thats mainly as they most closely resemble the Peacemaker!

    What should i look out for! Are there other makes to consider? And any other advice you think i need.

    Thanks in advance
    Welcome to the Dark Side, where Men are Men and smell of cow fartz. Here in UK we are more or less limited to what the big sellers, like Henry Krank, actually offer for sale - many gun dealers either know little or absolutely nothing about BP firearms of any kind, or have very little choice in the various models that they DO have for sale. It would be VERY unusual to find a gun store here in UK, apart from Kranks, where such knowledge and expertise is there behind the counter.

    Your choice of a version of the Model of 1858 - the Remington New Model Army - is sound. It has a very robust solid frame, and is easy to dismantle for cleaning - something that you will be getting expert in doing every time you shoot. Both Pietta [who have gotten very good in recent times] and Uberti make them, but so do Pedersoli and, if you are rich, Hege/Feinwerkbau.

    You CAN actually get what appears at first glance to be a real 'Peacemaker' but it's a cap and ball version that has to be dismantled to load it. But it otherwise closely resembles The Colt SAA.

    Now, a word. Plinking with your new C&B is what we all do, unless we get into it seriously enough to compete, but displaying it in UK is a no-no. It is a Section 1 handgun, and must be kept in a secure accommodation when not in use.

    Aside from that, BP handgun shooting is a blast. Noisy, smelly, dirty - what's not to like? You are going to need a bunch of stuff to enable you to shoot it anyhow - in no particular order -

    1. A BP license to acquire and possess the BP - you'll need 3Fg grade for the .44 calibre revolver.

    2. the correct wooden storage container for your BP - buy one [ca. £70-80] or make one from downloaded plans off the internet.

    3. #10 or #11 percussion caps - trial and error will be your teacher here. Or do what many of us do, and buy a set of Slix nipples - lightyears ahead of the factory stuff.

    4. Powder flask and a set of glass phials for loading. In Europe we do not load directly into the chamber of the gun, but via a phial, thus removing the chance of a stray spark flashing back into half a pound of powder in that copper bomb that you are holding.

    5. Unless you are rich, a Lee electric lead melter and a suitable bullet mould for ball. Most .44cal are .451 - .454 - the best way to find out is bu jonesing some off a couple of pals who also shoot a .44 C&B revolver like yours. Some folks like to use a wad between the powder and the ball - others put a dob of some kind of grease over the end of the chamber, but there is no mention of either in the original instructions for using either the Colt or Remington revolving pistols - s'up to you.

    6. SAFETY GLASSES! Those percussion caps fragment on firing, and can go EVERYWHERE! It's bad enough getting them embedded in your face, but catching some of it in an eyeball can cause serious grief. These little bits of copper, infused with all kinds of explosive aftermath as well as grease and other crud, make injuries that refuse to heal. I'm still carrying around two bits of somebody else's caps - one in each hand, that have been there for years, so getting either of these bits in an unsafeguarded eyeball would undoubtedly have had a serious effect on my sight.

    No doubt you'll have more questions - so ask.

    tac

    PS - NO PM, sorry. Please resend.

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    Thanks for that Tac. The reason for my new found enthusiasm is I'm buying a house in France. The french don't recognise black powder pistols as firearms and there are no restrictions on sale except you need to be over 18! (I shall take ID just in case, I am a rather young 44!) Display appears to be fine as does shooting tin cans in your garden.
    I have seen the 1873 Cattleman, but as the design carried on for a while it is classed as a fiream and would require a licence.

    Safety glasses sound good, if not full body armour. Bits of brass and stuff flying around sounds terribly macho, and not a little dangerous! But it does mean i dont have to fill in a form like i would if i wanted a Glock!
    God rest ye jelly mental men

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    ^^^^^What tacfoley said !^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    --But - you can do without the box and black powder licence and shoot BP substitutes, such as Pyrodex - but then you will be a frilly-pantied gurly-weed, and no respectable gentleman will acknowledge you !

    - Also, if you like the Remington copies, and want to shoot in Western-style competition, don't buy the model with the target sights. I did - love the gun, but was assaulted by a horde of "rivet-counters", who said they would accept the stainless steel model I had (I don't like rusty guns), as nickel guns looked the same and they did have those in 1858, but under no circumstances would they allow me to shoot in their competitions, as the target sights were not 'period appropriate'. No loss to me, as it isn't really my thing, but worth knowing.

    Regarding the glass vials for storage - if you prefer something a little less breakable, the tapered centrifuge vials come in plastic, with a natty storage box available. I use 21grains of BP in my .44 for 25 metre shooting and it just fits perfectly in a 1.5ml vial, dirt cheap from fleabay.

    Otherwise, welcome to the Dark Side - as they say "we have cookies" (and fun).
    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
    N.S.R.A. RCO, Club Instructor, Club Coach.

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    Firstly welcome to the dark side. tacs about covered it but i would add. The Rodgers and Spencer is also worth a look if you like a bigger grip. Iv had mine
    for about 14 years and it still shoots like new. Best thing is to get to a club where they shoot b/p revolvers and handle a few, see what feels right. I tend
    to use the Ruger Old Army for most of my revolver plinking or the Anvil Uberti Remington nitro if time is tight. I know tac has been using his ROA for more
    years than anyone else iv ever heard of so theres no shortage of advice here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinbum View Post
    Thanks for that Tac. The reason for my new found enthusiasm is I'm buying a house in France. The french don't recognise black powder pistols as firearms and there are no restrictions on sale except you need to be over 18! (I shall take ID just in case, I am a rather young 44!) Display appears to be fine as does shooting tin cans in your garden.
    I have seen the 1873 Cattleman, but as the design carried on for a while it is classed as a fiream and would require a licence.

    Safety glasses sound good, if not full body armour. Bits of brass and stuff flying around sounds terribly macho, and not a little dangerous! But it does mean i dont have to fill in a form like i would if i wanted a Glock!
    Ah, OK. Forget everything I noted about security and display.

    Of course there are a great many single shot pistols, from matchlocks, miquelets, wheellocks and percussion. Single-shot flintlocks are great fun, but not really for an out and out beginner as they can be finicky and often need careful 'timing' work by somebody who knows what they are about.

    Many single-shot pistols are of the LePage or Sieber target pistol types of the late 1840s to 1860s - again, you can spend a small fortune or a large fortune buying an original, or plumb for a replica at around 300 - 500eu. A replica of the very finest of the genre, by Kuchenreuter, will set you back around 1200 - 1500eu, and a real one maybe five times as much.

    AFAIK, none of the BP substitutes are readily available at the average gun-store in France, and in any case, will only work with a percussion gun owing to the much higher ignition temperature. IAC, get hold of as many RWS caps of the correct size that you can find - they will set off anything, as they have a very high flame temperature.

    Oh, did I mention getting hold of the Lyman Blackpowder handbook?

    If not, but it before you do ANYTHING else - it's worth its weight in gold.

    tac

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    A Uberti 31 Pocket

    then

    A Uberti Walker.

    Mini-Me and Lord Humungus, both will put a collossal smile on your face and everyone will want a go.

    The most popular cap and ball revolver ever made, and the most awesome revolver of the era.

    Then, get a Ruger Old Army, scary accurate, last forever and ever and ever and ever...
    The Black-Powder Revival gathers steam..

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    .

    There is a very nice Uberti .44 1858 New Army in the Firearms for sale section.

    Look here, http://www.shootforum.com/forum/view...?f=157&t=33658

    Have a look at this site http://www.anvilconversions.co.uk/ (Ssssh, Don't tell tac.)

    Got my ROA earlier this year and everyone in the club cringes when its taken out.
    Noisy, smelly, smokey and with a shockwave across the 10 shooting points no one gets to practice their precission shooting.

    Its Brilliant.

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    http://www.hsconline.co.uk/plastic-box-with-50xs1sc for the glass vials with box, they hold about 35 grains (the plastic vials discolour very quickly and it becomes difficult to see if there full or not)
    Don't forget baby wipes, there a god send for bp shooters.
    If you go to a gun shop they will probably try to sell you wads and a capper, don't bother I use porridge oats as a filler/wad this also prevents flash over without the use of grease/swarfega/hand cream, as for the capper the bought ones are rubbish, I use bits of fish tank air tubing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5mwOJ2Khg
    When it's windy I now use the paper cases but without the ball glued to the end, fag paper rolled to about 1-2mm smaller than the diamiter of the cylinder twist one end closed then cut the tube in half, twist the other tube closed then fill with the amount of bp you use then a filler (fine grain semolina) then twist closed.
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....t=Black+powder
    Last edited by airgunnut; 27-11-2015 at 11:35 AM.
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by airgunnut View Post
    http://www.hsconline.co.uk/plastic-box-with-50xs1sc for the glass vials with box, they hold about 35 grains (the plastic vials discolour very quickly and it becomes difficult to see if there full or not)
    Don't forget baby wipes, there a god send for bp shooters.
    If you go to a gun shop they will probably try to sell you wads and a capper, don't bother I use porridge oats as a filler/wad this also prevents flash over without the use of grease/swarfega/hand cream, as for the capper the bought ones are rubbish, I use bits of fish tank air tubing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5mwOJ2Khg
    When it's windy I now use the paper cases but without the ball glued to the end, fag paper rolled to about 1-2mm smaller than the diamiter of the cylinder twist one end closed then cut the tube in half, twist the other tube closed then fill with the amount of bp you use then a filler (fine grain semolina) then twist closed.
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....t=Black+powder
    'Flash-over', the reported multiple discharge phenomenum, does not take place from the front of the cylinder, where the ball is actually a swaged-in fit to the chamber, but from the back, where loose-fitting caps on worn-out or distorted nipples allow the flash to transit from one nipple to the other, and setting off neighbouring chambers.

    Exciting to watch, underwear-filling to experience personally, it is something that can be avoided altogether by ensuring that the caps are a good tight fit, and that the nipples are not worn or distorted. Note that it CAN happen if you distort the caps by pinching them oval to make them fit - so get the right-size caps to fit your perfect nipples.

    tac
    Last edited by tacfoley; 27-11-2015 at 02:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weebeestie View Post
    Got my ROA earlier this year and everyone in the club cringes when its taken out.
    I assume that your club is full of gleekit, wabbly-leggit weens, right?

    tac

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    I assume that your club is full of gleekit, wabbly-leggit weens, right?
    An enclosed firing point with a quarry wall 35yds in front does echo a wee bit.

    Yes they do do moan like gleekit, wabbly-leggit weens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weebeestie View Post
    An enclosed firing point with a quarry wall 35yds in front does echo a wee bit.

    Yes they do do moan like gleekit, wabbly-leggit weens.


    tac

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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    'Flash-over', the reported multiple discharge phenomenum, does not take place from the front of the cylinder, where the ball is actually a swaged-in fit to the chamber, but from the back, where loose-fitting caps on worn-out or distorted nipples allow the flash to transit from one nipple to the other, and setting off neighbouring chambers.

    Exciting to watch, underwear-filling to experience personally, it is something that can be avoided altogether by ensuring that the caps are a good tight fit, and that the nipples are not worn or distorted. Note that it CAN happen if you distort the caps by pinching them oval to make them fit - so get the right-size caps to fit your perfect nipples.

    tac
    As tac says do not squeeze nipples oooooh eeerrrr missus to fit ( I know it's caps but nipples sound so much better lol )
    And to think it was once suggested as a good tip to squeeze the caps to stop them falling off under recoil too

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    Nipple squeezing and rubbing in lard?! (Or something, i was too squeamish to read the details)
    What am i getting into?

    I like the idea of a .44, its a manly-mans calibre and the caps not jamming up the works is an advantage. I've just been doing some reading on loads and power levels, i think keeping the powder down and a nice low output of 150ft/lb will be perfect for knocking holes in the surrounding countryside. Roll on January!
    God rest ye jelly mental men

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