Webley Senior + Premier problems.

[ggggr]

I have recently acquired 2 Webley pistols. The first is a blued Premier. On this the plunger housing was damaged and the plunger was trapped and would not budge. I eventually had a go at drilling it out from the front( should have tried it from the rear and tried to knock the plunger out) and made a bit of a balls of the housing Can anyone drill the housing from the rear and make up a small sleeve for this please? I have bought a late painted frame just in case, but would prefer to use the original.

Second up is a REALLY RUSTY Webley Senior that is so rusty that the rust has damaged one grip! The barrel pivot screw is stuck in and the head of it has been damaged. This might have been a job for Edbear's welding skills to build it up and extract it, but I know Ed does not come on here now. I have had heat on the gun and some plus gas, which does seem to run through. I thought of finding a screw to put in from the lock screw side and try to turn it to unwind the pivot screw, but reckon it would probably shear before it undid the pivot screw. If I try to drill this out, I will make a balls of it and even if I got it fairly accurate, would still be left with some thread in the end plug hole that the pivot goes through.
Any idea or offers of help please?
This bugger is really rough but as it will fire, (even though it does not always cock first time) I would like to get it working and plinking even though it will never be worth anything.

I should stop taking in these waifs and strays. "A Webley is not just for Christmas"


Update.
I did put a screw in from the lock screw side and it did shear Grrr
May need to try to drill the trigger guard screws a bit as well to shift them.
I'd love to get this bugger working properly again.

[pjbingham]

Sounds like you've set yourself abit of a challenge mate,i feel your pain having had similar issues over the years. Still no joy with the pivot pin? I've drilled out afew grip screws before and once the grip is away the remaining bits often come out relatively easily,seems to be worse with wooden Mk1 grips,what style grips are yours,have you got a spare for it,if not I may be able to help you out. Atb Phil

[ggggr]

A bit of an update here.
A nice man off here took the pistols away and made an insert for the barrel catch plunger and drilled and fitted it from the rear of the gun. If you ever do get a stuck plunger, I would drill a tiny hole in the rear of the plunger housing and use a small pin or punch to knock it out. A bit of metal could then be locktited in and touched with blue if you wanted.
The Senior had the barrel pivot screw drilled out and the remaining thread picked out (very impressive) + the 2 trigger guard pins knocked out.
I stripped the gun and gave it a bit of lubriction, planning to strip the gun again and try to clean it up a bit. It would not cock very often. I tried swapping the sear and the trigger spring and even 2 barrels and full linkage but it was still the same. I think the small link is worn so it is probably worn on one of the other pistols I tried. On closer inspection, the long link had been fitted the wrong way round. Once I put it the right way round and the right way up, the gun was cocking every time. I still think the cocking fulcrum lump at the front of the cylinder could do with building up a tiny bit with weld though.
I need to sort out new link pins as one was a bit of nail/pin. Also need to get a barrel pivot screw.
Hopefully I will get this cleaned up bit and the plan is to go over it with a bit of Plum Brown and see how it looks.

[deejayuu]

Good progress 4gr. Every confidence in you.
Just to cheer you up this was the good side.


P.S. you'll have to explain the fulcrum lump bit 'cos I can't visualise it doing anything

[johnbaz]

Good progress 4gr. Every confidence in you.
Just to cheer you up this was the good side.


P.S. you'll have to explain the fulcrum lump bit 'cos I can't visualise it doing anything

Hi DeeJay

The fulcrum lump is the small bit of of a hump of steel that sits at the muzzle end of the cocking slot, When it wears the full stroke can't be achieved so the sear won't engage

Had a Senior and a Premier over the years that I had to apply a bit of weld on to maker the guns cock!!

EDIT-Doh!! I just realised what you meant!!

I only know that when it wears a slot, The length of stroke needed isn't enough to set the sear..



John

[deejayuu]

Thanks John. Glad you get me 'cos I don't

[kamag]

Thanks John. Glad you get me 'cos I don't

Hi deejayuu
If your still having trouble with sear not engaging . Remove trigger and remove a few thou
From sear where it contacts piston allowing trigger to set a little earlier on the stroke
I did this on one johnbaz gave me
Johnbaz built the fulcrum pillar up and I put sum new parts in the link but it's only when
I removed a small amount from the sear the problem was solved

[deejayuu]

Thanks Kamag but I don't have the problem. It's a "Chinese whisper" thing !!

[ggggr]

A bit of an update here.
A nice man off here took the pistols away and made an insert for the barrel catch plunger and drilled and fitted it from the rear of the gun. If you ever do get a stuck plunger, I would drill a tiny hole in the rear of the plunger housing and use a small pin or punch to knock it out. A bit of metal could then be locktited in and touched with blue if you wanted.
The Senior had the barrel pivot screw drilled out and the remaining thread picked out (very impressive) + the 2 trigger guard pins knocked out.
I stripped the gun and gave it a bit of lubriction, planning to strip the gun again and try to clean it up a bit. It would not cock very often. I tried swapping the sear and the trigger spring and even 2 barrels and full linkage but it was still the same. I think the small link is worn so it is probably worn on one of the other pistols I tried. On closer inspection, the long link had been fitted the wrong way round. Once I put it the right way round and the right way up, the gun was cocking every time. I still think the cocking fulcrum lump at the front of the cylinder could do with building up a tiny bit with weld though.
I need to sort out new link pins as one was a bit of nail/pin. Also need to get a barrel pivot screw.
Hopefully I will get this cleaned up bit and the plan is to go over it with a bit of Plum Brown and see how it looks.

Well THAT was a bugger! It decided it did not want to cock again, so after many deep breaths, I decided to fit a new small link. This is one of the jobs I hate on Webley pistols. Despite the pin being so short, it just never seems to want to move. I suppose if you were doing a lot, you would make up a clamp/jig, with a hole in it for the pin to go through into, but I was trying to steady it and tap the pin with a punch. It was soaked in vinegar and had a bit of heat applied and just did not want to move. Time for drastic action I put one of those tiny Lidl grinding set discs in the drill and cut through the old link and pin (double ). Even with heat and plus gas, the remaining bits did not want to move. One side eventually got moving but when it touched the other side/ other bit of the pin, did not want to go any further. I then had to cut the sticking out bit to allow me to knock it through more. It finally came out and the other side started to move. I went over the worst bits of the rust on the barrel and frame with a small wire brush( another ) and then a small rotary one. I took it to the kitchen and fitted the new small link and pin. The Frame and barrel were cleaned off with Meths and alcohol and gave it 3 coats of Plum brown and then wiped it over with oil. After cleaning out again, the gun was put back together. I swapped the new barrel pivot for an older one off another pistol, to keep it in character. I used Gn paste and some chainsaw oil. The trigger is a little notchy, but being left to settle before any slight work on it. It seemed accurate in a poor light kitchen plink though.
The right grip is slightly too rough as the rust had pulled some of it away. If anyone has a complete but slightly rough Right grip and used grip screws, I would like to keep the rough old bugger in character.
I have a feeling this will turn out to be one of those that loos like CARP but you just like using.

[Dutch]

Wow, great story, visualized it all, but I'm up for some pics of the result!

[ggggr]

Well--the Senior is a rough old bugger but I had a plink in the kitchen the other night and tried to set the sights. The light isn't great but after a bit of messing with the rear sight, it seemed somewhere close. The sights on these are always a bugger to set as you try to adjust in one plane and it moves on the other as well. AND that is before the plate moves as you re tighten the screw (double).
Well the sun shone and the wind dropped so a few shots outside today at 7 1/2 yards and shooting 2 handed. It hit 5 bottle caps on the trot so the sights must be near right now.
The trigger is still not great and I am going to have a think about it and see if I can tune it a bit. There have been a few threads on here about this ---here's one http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....r-trigger-tune. I was told someone got the ring on the piston that the sear engages on, ground to a slightly different profile many years ago on a gun they used for target shooting. On one of mine I fitted a leaf spring out of a mortice lock that someone sent me, which helped a little. I think part of the problem is that the sear moves in one plane, rather than pivoting like on most guns. The Relum Hurricane, which has a really bad trigger has a sear that moves like that.
Without reprofiling the ring on the piston and not wanting to do much on the face of the sear, I am going to have a think about maybe rounding the bottom of the for and aft faces at the bottom of the sear. If I could get hold of an old/worn a bit/ settled in after all those years, sear, I would fit that or have a tinker.
So--if anyone has an old sear knocking about? Plus I'm still looking for an unbroken but worn right grip and grip screws.
So far this thing stands me at about £45 and is worth about £25 but it is growing on me.
How many pistols could have been found in a field after being there for how long??? and then after a bit of work, shoot ok?