Went all out

[Elliott]

Visited Malmo's this afternoon and got a bit carried away on my route to perfection. I picked up x100 Nosler brass cases, x100 50gn Sierra Blitzking and x100 52gn Amax as well as some primers. I bloody hope the new brass is better than my reused factory stuff! Jesus it wasn't cheap!

I found there to be a bit of a difference in the brass OAL so I ran the new cases through the full length die and through the trimmer and dechamfer to give myself the best possible chance. Got the sizing wax off with the ultrasonic cleaner and gave them a dry tumble for an hour.

Hopefully the new brass should have a more consistent volume and wall thickness.. At least I hope!

The plan is to retry the Sierra 50gn Blitzkings with 24.5gn Vhit 133 which is currently the best load and the A-Max from 21.4gn - max load in 0.2gn increments. I only tested upto 22gn with the A-Max last time round and in 0.4gn increments. 21.4gn proved to be the be the best at the time so I'll try and extract a bit more accuracy this time and maybe later play with the COAL.

It's all a bit addictive isn't it!?

[223AI]

Next you need to get a primer pocket uniformer, flash hole deburrer and you'll be neck sizing and batching brass by water capacity to make sure your brass is as identical as possible!

Probably down to the fact that time is very limited for me at the mo my quest for the perfect group is on hold at he moment, all loads are around 3/4 moa and that's good enough for me! Having said that I would like to tighten the .223 down to 1/2 moa but the limiting factor may well be me, Mr ant is fitting a jewell trigger to the CZ next month so we'll see if that helps.

Have fun mate

[Elliott]

Next you need to get a primer pocket uniformer, flash hole deburrer and you'll be neck sizing and batching brass by water capacity to make sure your brass is as identical as possible!

Probably down to the fact that time is very limited for me at the mo my quest for the perfect group is on hold at he moment, all loads are around 3/4 moa and that's good enough for me! Having said that I would like to tighten the .223 down to 1/2 moa but the limiting factor may well be me, Mr ant is fitting a jewell trigger to the CZ next month so we'll see if that helps.

Have fun mate

Cheers Scott. Primer pocket uniformer and flash hole deburer sound like the logical next step but I think I'll draw the line at water capacity! Might consider weighing and batching them though as a one-off

Just something to keep me busy with on these horrible winter nights. I know what you're saying about the shooter being the limiting factor, I often wonder if it's me!

Hope you're well

[simgre]

I really wouldn't bother with 0.2gn increments. Even the most accurate measuring equipment available off the shelf for reloaders will have a 0.1gn variation. So let's say your first loads are at 15.0gns (purely illustrative) the next lot you'll throw at 15.2gn. But there is the chance that some of your first loads will already have been thrown at 15.1gn and some of your second loads will also be at 15.1gns.... Go at least 0.3gns would be my advice. Find the load with the most potential then tweak OAL.

And you should structure your expectations on the "route to perfection". The T3 Varmint is a good rifle but it's not a Benchrest gun. If you, your rifle and your loads can keep all groups, outside edge to outside edge, sub-MOA, every time at whatever distance, then you will have achieved a level of performance that is well above average. Messing with everything can sometimes have you miss the actual point. My grand father told me 35 years ago, the secret to rifle accuracy is a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel, consistently. His head would spin at what ordinary joe can achieve today with off the shelf rifles...

We can all shoot that one outstanding group now and again. Heck, I once shot a five round group, under an inch at 300m, with a .357 Uberti lever rifle! Everything, including a great big dose of luck and coincidence all came together with those five rounds. Never done it since. But consistently that rifle will shoot two to three inches at 100. That's the measure of it all.

[tacfoley]

I really wouldn't bother with 0.2gn increments. Even the most accurate measuring equipment available off the shelf for reloaders will have a 0.1gn variation. So let's say your first loads are at 15.0gns (purely illustrative) the next lot you'll throw at 15.2gn. But there is the chance that some of your first loads will already have been thrown at 15.1gn and some of your second loads will also be at 15.1gns.... Go at least 0.3gns would be my advice. Find the load with the most potential then tweak OAL.

And you should structure your expectations on the "route to perfection". The T3 Varmint is a good rifle but it's not a Benchrest gun. If you, your rifle and your loads can keep all groups, outside edge to outside edge, sub-MOA, every time at whatever distance, then you will have achieved a level of performance that is well above average. Messing with everything can sometimes have you miss the actual point. My grand father told me 35 years ago, the secret to rifle accuracy is a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel, consistently. His head would spin at what ordinary joe can achieve today with off the shelf rifles...

We can all shoot that one outstanding group now and again. Heck, I once shot a five round group, under an inch at 300m, with a .357 Uberti lever rifle! Everything, including a great big dose of luck and coincidence all came together with those five rounds. Never done it since. But consistently that rifle will shoot two to three inches at 100. That's the measure of it all.

Best post here for ages.

tac

[223AI]

I really wouldn't bother with 0.2gn increments. Even the most accurate measuring equipment available off the shelf for reloaders will have a 0.1gn variation. So let's say your first loads are at 15.0gns (purely illustrative) the next lot you'll throw at 15.2gn. But there is the chance that some of your first loads will already have been thrown at 15.1gn and some of your second loads will also be at 15.1gns.... Go at least 0.3gns would be my advice. Find the load with the most potential then tweak OAL.

And you should structure your expectations on the "route to perfection". The T3 Varmint is a good rifle but it's not a Benchrest gun. If you, your rifle and your loads can keep all groups, outside edge to outside edge, sub-MOA, every time at whatever distance, then you will have achieved a level of performance that is well above average. Messing with everything can sometimes have you miss the actual point. My grand father told me 35 years ago, the secret to rifle accuracy is a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel, consistently. His head would spin at what ordinary joe can achieve today with off the shelf rifles...

We can all shoot that one outstanding group now and again. Heck, I once shot a five round group, under an inch at 300m, with a .357 Uberti lever rifle! Everything, including a great big dose of luck and coincidence all came together with those five rounds. Never done it since. But consistently that rifle will shoot two to three inches at 100. That's the measure of it all.

Agreed, unless you're loading hornet!

[Elliott]

I really wouldn't bother with 0.2gn increments. Even the most accurate measuring equipment available off the shelf for reloaders will have a 0.1gn variation. So let's say your first loads are at 15.0gns (purely illustrative) the next lot you'll throw at 15.2gn. But there is the chance that some of your first loads will already have been thrown at 15.1gn and some of your second loads will also be at 15.1gns.... Go at least 0.3gns would be my advice. Find the load with the most potential then tweak OAL.

And you should structure your expectations on the "route to perfection". The T3 Varmint is a good rifle but it's not a Benchrest gun. If you, your rifle and your loads can keep all groups, outside edge to outside edge, sub-MOA, every time at whatever distance, then you will have achieved a level of performance that is well above average. Messing with everything can sometimes have you miss the actual point. My grand father told me 35 years ago, the secret to rifle accuracy is a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel, consistently. His head would spin at what ordinary joe can achieve today with off the shelf rifles...

We can all shoot that one outstanding group now and again. Heck, I once shot a five round group, under an inch at 300m, with a .357 Uberti lever rifle! Everything, including a great big dose of luck and coincidence all came together with those five rounds. Never done it since. But consistently that rifle will shoot two to three inches at 100. That's the measure of it all.

Thanks for the post but I do expect and hope for consistently better groups than MOA through refining my reloading and practicing my technique

[loiner1965]

Cheers Scott. Primer pocket uniformer and flash hole deburer sound like the logical next step but I think I'll draw the line at water capacity! Might consider weighing and batching them though as a one-off

Just something to keep me busy with on these horrible winter nights. I know what you're saying about the shooter being the limiting factor, I often wonder if it's me!

Hope you're well

I reload for .223 / 308 / 30-06 / 8mm / 577 / 577-450 and to be truthful I have never used a primer pocket uniformer or debarrer yet lol
I do have them but not had any need to use
I do use good quality brass like lapua and Norma though.
Never done water capacity or weighing either

[tacfoley]

I reload for .223 / 308 / 30-06 / 8mm / 577 / 577-450 and to be truthful I have never used a primer pocket uniformer or debarrer yet lol
I do have them but not had any need to use
I do use good quality brass like lapua and Norma though.
Never done water capacity or weighing either

I, too, reload multiples of the same calibres - two different loads for .308Win, same for 7.5x55Swiss, same for 7x57Mauser, same for .357Mag, same for 6.5x55 and THREE different loads for .45-70 Govt. I DO clean out the primer pockets, and use good brass like Lapua [rifle], Federal [357Mag] and Bertram for the .45-70 Govt. I take extreme care of this vital part of reloading - all that is between your face and 60,000+ psi.

tac

[loiner1965]

After de priming in a lee universal decapper I bung all the brass in a ultrasonic cleaner with water and Maplins sea green.
After several cycles the primer pockets are perfectly clean and shiny.
I use an old lee hand prime tool to seat primers.
If they go in too easily without resistance the brass is ditched.
When I run up a load I do use quick load just to see pressure and burn efficiency but the real test is out on the range.
Primers are checked for flattening and stiff extraction etc.
If you use a uniformer than fine....I found I don't need too

[Parabuteo]

I did use to bother when I shot F class, but I had a consistant ES of 6-7FPS.

Was it worth it? Dunno, I got sick of worrying about the load.

I know sod all about the hornet except that its a pretty little round from a collectors point of view and it can be a bitch to get right hand loading. It dont half go though. Scott knows the Hornet pretty well to be fair.

All my loads now are done using my old F class kit, but since 2 are Service mag loaders (so stuck with certain OALs) and hardly tac drivers and the other is an elderly but half decent target rifle with a scope I am hardly worried unless I get split cases or silly fliers...otherwise known as a good group with my current lack of practice and the No4.

In reality the best I need from the M67 is 1MOA (which it will do) and the centre of a Fig11/12/14 for the AR (Easy) and the No4....the screen so its happy days.

Its about expectation and the point at which you accept things are ok.

I know the M67 will shoot tighter, but at the expense of the brass and potentially my face so I have reduced the load (It was not over but I stopped shooting past 600 and the old girl deserves better).

I know that 2 MOA is fine with the AR, but that depends on a prefectly centred group...often seen at BR shoots, rarely seen at CSR shoots (from all positions), so if I have a load that will half the standard....I can wobble about a bit and get away with it.

What's the point? It would not matter a toss whether it was 1 or .5 MOA off a bipod etc and all the other shite people use to test groups...than take off again.

The fact is that they all extract nicely, shoot consistantly (and predictably) and the brass keeps going. The groups might be tightened but since none of them are habitually shot from bipods the POI shifts anyway so zeroing etc is usually done slung, free or mag rested...which gives a reaslistic wobble. The .5moa wont make a massive difference.

I think there comes a point where you are simply putting wear on a throat/barrel which might be better spent practicing sitting or shooting in a strong wind.

Work out what works and stick to it, dont spend too much time arsing about unless you really need it to achieve the aim...scuse punn...its crap

[kennyc]

I did use to bother when I shot F class, but I had a consistant ES of 6-7FPS.

Was it worth it? Dunno, I got sick of worrying about the load.

I know sod all about the hornet except that its a pretty little round from a collectors point of view and it can be a bitch to get right hand loading. It dont half go though. Scott knows the Hornet pretty well to be fair.

All my loads now are done using my old F class kit, but since 2 are Service mag loaders (so stuck with certain OALs) and hardly tac drivers and the other is an elderly but half decent target rifle with a scope I am hardly worried unless I get split cases or silly fliers...otherwise known as a good group with my current lack of practice and the No4.

In reality the best I need from the M67 is 1MOA (which it will do) and the centre of a Fig11/12/14 for the AR (Easy) and the No4....the screen so its happy days.

Its about expectation and the point at which you accept things are ok.

I know the M67 will shoot tighter, but at the expense of the brass and potentially my face so I have reduced the load (It was not over but I stopped shooting past 600 and the old girl deserves better).

I know that 2 MOA is fine with the AR, but that depends on a prefectly centred group...often seen at BR shoots, rarely seen at CSR shoots (from all positions), so if I have a load that will half the standard....I can wobble about a bit and get away with it.

What's the point? It would not matter a toss whether it was 1 or .5 MOA off a bipod etc and all the other shite people use to test groups...than take off again.

The fact is that they all extract nicely, shoot consistantly (and predictably) and the brass keeps going. The groups might be tightened but since none of them are habitually shot from bipods the POI shifts anyway so zeroing etc is usually done slung, free or mag rested...which gives a reaslistic wobble. The .5moa wont make a massive difference.

I think there comes a point where you are simply putting wear on a throat/barrel which might be better spent practicing sitting or shooting in a strong wind.

Work out what works and stick to it, dont spend too much time arsing about unless you really need it to achieve the aim...scuse punn...its crap

words to live by!

[Parabuteo]

words to live by!

Cheers Hun, I am really slumming it these days

Oddly I have 4 different loads for the AR and at shorter ranges they all shoot about the same execpt that the light 55gr PPU bullet buggers off left while all the 77 SMKs seem to go on rails.

I will as likley settle on Wildboar and/or RS52 as they are both pretty close but the WB is a damned sight cheaper, but I just have a lot of powder kicking about as I did not do much of the league this year.

I will have to catch up with you lot soon.