.36 Pedersoli le Page on chrono

[DesG]

Well I spent a couple of hours yesterday with the skyscreen chono set up about five feet in front of the firing point (far enough to negate the effect of patch and smoke) and wacked ten loads each at 8.5 to 12.5 grains of Swiss #1, 10thou patch and .354 ball. The first five of each are just with powder and the second five were with a .5 cc scope of Sainsburys semolina. This is not a scientific trial although I weighed each charge to 1/10gn accuracy and the balls were all Jeff Tanner mould, ball milled to ensure roundness. I fired supported on a rest but was not overly concerned about accuracy as long as I didn't shoot the club chrono! The groups were all around two inch which is not exactly astounding at twenty five yards.

The velocities tend to settle down after about ten grains so I'm thinking that that is all the powder that's going to burn in this particular barrel. Anything over ten grains was just making a bigger bang.

The velocities were rather more erratic than I expected despite making every effort to do every shot in the same way. I didn't clean the barrel from begining to end.

My conclussion at the end of this is that blackpowder pistol shooters are extreme masochists!

Swiss #1 All measurements in feet per second.
### indicates chrono didn’t register. The 10.5 shots were on the bottom spot on a 6 spot 50meter target and a bit too low for the chrono I think.

First figure is just BP, second figure is with semolina .5cc scoop.

8.5gn
1 838, 803
2 842, 902
3 870, 839
4 832, 839
5 ###, 769
9.5gn
1 1021 985
2 1016 980
3 1018 1057
4 1046 1047
5 995 ###
10.5gn
1 929 1108
2 ### 1029
3 ### 1084
11.5gn
1 1104 1137
2 1154 1105
3 1110 1157
4 1137 1096
5 1143 1108
12.5gn
1 1147 1139
2 1143 1195
3 1172 1189
4 1178 1105
5 1140 ###

[tacfoley]

A great post, useful at many levels, especially for demonstrating the quality and potency of Swiss BP compared with the other brands on sale in UK.

Comparing these figures with Triple 7, generally agreed in the community to be the most vigorous of the subs, there appears to be no discernible difference charge for charge load.

tac

[steve medlock]

What was the semolina for Des?

[tacfoley]

What was the semolina for Des?

Filler.

Like Cream of Wheat.

Not mixed with water, though.

tac

[DesG]

I hated the damn stuff in school dinners and have finally found a use for it. It acts as a buffer between the powder and ball and also scrubs the bore a tad each shot. I find it improves my group a bit and my scores are a bit higher when I use it. Opinions on its use vary!

[gtpkeeper]

very interesting des,thank you for doing it,
swiss no1 is 3-4fg ?

[1066]

Excellent information Des.

Here's an interesting video of the LePage .36. This guy is getting good results with very low charges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgPT9Gzhuc

[tacfoley]

Excellent information Des.

Here's an interesting video of the LePage .36. This guy is getting good results with very low charges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgPT9Gzhuc

The gentleman in the video is Balaszc Néméth, the #1 Hungarian BP pistol shooter, international champion and all-round good egg. He runs a company in Budapest that majors in BP fireamrs of all kinds. He is also the front man for Davide Pedersoli S.p.a, and rightly so - his results over many years with the products of that company paper the walls back in Italy. When he speaks, he is to be believed.

tac

[DesG]

I've got a pot of Henry Krank's finest cooking BP so when I have a quiet moment I'll run a few similar loads across the chrono and see exactly how it compares to Swiss. Just for the hell of it type thing!!

[Turnup]

That would make an interesting comparison.

[steve medlock]

I hated the damn stuff in school dinners and have finally found a use for it. It acts as a buffer between the powder and ball and also scrubs the bore a tad each shot. I find it improves my group a bit and my scores are a bit higher when I use it. Opinions on its use vary!

Ok thanks & interesting. I'd not heard of filler being used with patched ball before.

Steve.

[DesG]

The bore of the le Page is 9mm diameter give or take. The chamber where the powder goes is actually 7mm diameter for a depth of about 8mm. With a small bp charge it's possible to have a small gap between the powder and patched ball. Not enough to be a hazard but possibly enough to be inconsistent perhaps. This is number 8721 in my book of excuses for missing the target. I've fitted a 7mm drill bit on a rod to clean out the gunk in the chamber every ten shots or so. It's quite suprising how much builds up in there quite quickly, changing the size of the chamber, (number 8722). Maybe the filler helps. The bloke Tac mentioned who shoots rather well for Pedersoli uses an equal measure of filler to BP.

Added to the above, I've never had a patch burn through while using filler.

[tacfoley]

The bore of the le Page is 9mm diameter give or take. The chamber where the powder goes is actually 7mm diameter for a depth of about 8mm. With a small bp charge it's possible to have a small gap between the powder and patched ball. Not enough to be a hazard but possibly enough to be inconsistent perhaps. This is number 8721 in my book of excuses for missing the target. I've fitted a 7mm drill bit on a rod to clean out the gunk in the chamber every ten shots or so. It's quite suprising how much builds up in there quite quickly, changing the size of the chamber, (number 8722). Maybe the filler helps. The bloke Tac mentioned who shoots rather well for Pedersoli uses an equal measure of filler to BP.

Added to the above, I've never had a patch burn through while using filler.

Actually, he shoots very well for the Hungarian national muzzle-loading team, using Pedersoli products.

The reduced-sized chamber of the Pedersoli pistol is called either a Patent or High Pressure breech, and is commonly found in ML target rifles of the day.

tac

[Turnup]

The bore of the le Page is 9mm diameter give or take. The chamber where the powder goes is actually 7mm diameter for a depth of about 8mm. With a small bp charge it's possible to have a small gap between the powder and patched ball. Not enough to be a hazard but possibly enough to be inconsistent perhaps. This is number 8721 in my book of excuses for missing the target. I've fitted a 7mm drill bit on a rod to clean out the gunk in the chamber every ten shots or so. It's quite suprising how much builds up in there quite quickly, changing the size of the chamber, (number 8722). Maybe the filler helps. The bloke Tac mentioned who shoots rather well for Pedersoli uses an equal measure of filler to BP.

Added to the above, I've never had a patch burn through while using filler.

Thanks for the explanation DesG. I was puzzling how a filler could help, but the breech design means that it is not possible to fully seat the ball on a light charge, hence the filler.

[Turnup]

Actually, he shoots very well for the Hungarian national muzzle-loading team, using Pedersoli products.

The reduced-sized chamber of the Pedersoli pistol is called either a Patent or High Pressure breech, and is commonly found in ML target rifles of the day.

tac

Might be some difference between US and UK patents here. Henry Nock took out a UK patent on a breech design which (in various different ways) incorporated a small "pre-ignition" chamber either in the nipple pocket or at the base of the breech, for UK guns this is known as the "patent breech". The essential feature is that a part of the charge is constrained in the pre-ignition chamber and when ignited will project high pressure gasses into the main charge. Claims to increase Mv.

This does not seem to be the same configuration as described by DesG (or have I not understood it properly).