LP5/50 now section 5.

[Powderfinger]

Many of the airguns that look like real firearms are not semi-auto's even though they mimic semi-auto's in appearance. Their mechanism is operated by a pull of the trigger akin to a double-action revolver.
Most such guns are pellet firers but some fire BBs or can fire pellets or BBs.
Some of the airguns that look like real firearms are semi-auto's in that they prepare for firing the next BB by the blowback mechanism of the slide after the first shot has been fired by double-action or the slide has been racked or the hammer has been cocked.
Along with the semi-auto pellet firers that have been used for ISSF-style events for decades, there are hundreds possibly thousands of these guns in circulation.
If semi-auto airguns really are now Section 5 then presumably there will have to be a massive round-up and prosecutions of the owners. B
ut the authorities do not seem to have advocated such a round-up.
Which makes me agree with RobinC that semi-auto airguns of less than the 12fpe/6fpe limits are not Section 5, have never been Section 5 and have not suddenly been legally declared section 5...

[Fierynick]

I believe that the same person who raised the fact that such multi shot air pistols should be Section 5 had stated some years ago that these air pistols weren't to be listed as Section 5.
Confusion reigns supreme. I believe that Harry has been advised to cease selling these pending confirmation of the law. As he is required to be a Firearms Dealer to trade Air Weapons he would be daft to leave himself open to problems surrounding the legitimacy of areas of his business, especially where the law seems ambiguous.
At present these pistols are not listed as Section 5, and I would think it highly unlikely that they would become so. As previously mentioned this would mean that overnight there would be numerous illegal firearms in the UK. I suspect that this is a headache that neither the Home Office or the Police would want.
For your information the British Shooting website states the requirements for shooters seeking Section 5 privilege.

[silvershooter]

Have fun

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/swiss-arms-...ir-Guns/741903

[Rich]

When a contact of mine enquired of his Firearms Officer a year ago about having a sub 12fpe semi auto rifle, in his case a Steyr Hunting 5 SA, the reply he had - in writing - was to the effect that an airgun under 12 is an airgun under 12 regardless of any other consideration and therefore is exempt from licensing, so if you want one go and buy one.

[kippers]

When a contact of mine enquired of his Firearms Officer a year ago about having a sub 12fpe semi auto rifle, in his case a Steyr Hunting 5 SA, the reply he had - in writing - was to the effect that an airgun under 12 is an airgun under 12 regardless of any other consideration and therefore is exempt from licensing, so if you want one go and buy one.

I bought an LP50 and asked the same thing to my FLO. He told me the same thing. As long as it's sub 6ft lb, go ahead.

[Muskett]

Which is why if you want a nice black realistic bb pistol then buy a legal higher powered air pistol, as otherwise its join a airsoft club or have it in pink or bright blue.
Its a reaction to "cowboys and indians" in children's playgrounds. There are more user law with air guns for youngster though over airsolf. However, for airsolf the laws are so draconian and hardly worth bothering with. For adults buy an airgun.

A bit of an own goal there me thinks.

[tinbum]

Here you go, printed from the government site this morning. This is the actual law as worded and is quite unequivical. The post it note found on the fridge door of the CPS canteen in 1997 is useful, but contrary to the letter of the law. I wouldn't risk by ability to keep guns and liberty on it.
One theory is that the wording was supposed to be "up to .22 rimfire" which would at least make sense.

3.2 Section 5(1) of the 1968 Act, as modified by the Transfer of Functions (ProhibitedWeapons) Order 1968 and amended by the 1988 Act, the 1992 Regulations, the 1997Acts, the Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to Scottish Ministers etc.) Order 1999,the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 and the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act20141, makes it unlawful to purchase, acquire or possess, without the authority of theSecretary of State, any prohibited weapon or ammunition. Section 5(1A) of the 1968 Actmakes it unlawful to purchase, acquire or possess, without the authority of the Secretary ofState, any prohibited weapon or ammunition. Unlike the section 5 (1) offence, the section
5 (2A) offence contained in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 coversthe manufacture, sale or transfer of any prohibited weapon or prohibited ammunition andthe possession for sale or transfer and, purchase or acquisition for sale or transfer of anyprohibited weapon or prohibited ammunition.
Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:

1. i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can besuccessively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
   
   
   
2. ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
   
   
   
3. iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or afirearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba));
   
   
   
4. iv) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon orchambered for .22 rimfire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches inlength or is less than 40 inches in length overall (section 5(1)(ac));
   
   
   
5. v) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rimfirecartridges or a muzzle-loading revolver gun (section 5(1)(ad));
   

[lucklogic]

These air pistols are still widely available from multiple UK dealers. They would not be if any problem existed

[dave milne]

We have consulted with ACPO and the CPS .... Chief Officers are advised that self loading and pump action rifled airguns should be considered to be regarded as falling outside the certification process PROVIDED THEY ARE LOW POWERED...

I have a letter from the Home Office dated Nov 1998 together with the relevant circular (HOC68/97) which states that despite the wording of the law unintentionally banning some low powered air guns, they will continue to be regarded as...

LOW POWERED AIRGUNS FOR WHICH NO LICENCE IS REQUIRED.

unless they have changed something..

So how can they (Who? Yorkshire Police?) stop Steyr from importing them but still leave some in the hands of private individuals?

[Turnup]

We have consulted with ACPO and the CPS .... Chief Officers are advised that self loading and pump action rifled airguns should be considered to be regarded as falling outside the certification process PROVIDED THEY ARE LOW POWERED...

I have a letter from the Home Office dated Nov 1998 together with the relevant circular (HOC68/97) which states that despite the wording of the law unintentionally banning some low powered air guns, they will continue to be regarded as...

LOW POWERED AIRGUNS FOR WHICH NO LICENCE IS REQUIRED.

unless they have changed something..

So how can they (Who? Yorkshire Police?) stop Steyr from importing them but still leave some in the hands of private individuals?

The letter you have, while providing some comfort, is unfortunately only an opinion and not binding on anyone. It is also entirely possible that since 1998 those opinions have changed. I think it will take a court case to resolve this.

I presume that NYP cannot simply seize these items and retain them in the long term, they can only seize them as evidence of a possible crime. Therefore they must either prosecute the alleged offence or return them to their rightful owners.

[schony]

NYP have written to Harry Preston that LP50 is NOT section 5 or 1 so all is good.

[Terry D]

As posted elsewhere: I haven't read the Gunmart piece, or spoken to the Gun Trade Association on this matter, but I'll do both in the morning. However, I did get an email a few days ago from a concerned shooter, it's reproduced below exactly as received, and you may make of it what you will:

'I have been trying to buy a Steyr lp50 and have been told by 3 RFDs that they have been BANNED soI rang the Home Office to ask WHY.
This is the answer I got back.
Section 5(1)(ab) of the 1968 Firearms Act(as amended) states That ALL self loading or pump action rifles guns are classified as prohibited other than those which are chambered for .22 rim fire cartridges. There is no specific exemption in this provision for air rifle/weapons as there is for some other provisions in the act. I would also like to clarify that this is not recent legislation as this amendment dates back to 1997. So if you own any 5 shot rifled self loading pistol YOU ARE NOW COMMITTING AN OFFENCE AND COULD BE FINED IMPRISONED OR BOTH.
I would suggest you contact the Drugs and Firearms Licensing Unit Home Office
Fry5 the Floor SE
2 Marsha Street
London SW1P 4 DF
www.gov.uk/home-office

Please publish this letter to warn my fellow shooters of this problem.'

Again, I haven't verified the content of the email, although I can confirm that it was copied to other publishers.

More news as I get it.

[RobinC]

Terry
Have you read or seen the Home Office Circular No.68/97? This is dated from 1997 when the matter was first identified, and appears to clarify the issue then, and states :-

"We have consulted the ACPO and the CPS about the legal status of these weapons and have agreed, in the absence of a court ruling, that the issue should be resolved formally at the next legistalative opportunity. In the meantime Chief officers are advised that self loading or pump action rfle airguns should continue to be regarded as falling outside the certification process provided that they are low powered and do not fall within the Firearms (Dangerous Weapons) rules 1969."

No its not recent legislation, its an issue that was raised in 1997, reviewed by the HO, and clarified in black and white!

I would add that there have been several legislative opprtunities since, and if they wished they could have been specifically banned, they have not, HOC 68/97 has not been revoked, in fact the most recent HO guidance on firearms in 2015 states that air guns are exempt the certification process, and that covers all except those listed as Dangerous, and it lists various law and rules, and the only specification referred in those regulations and rules for Dangerous is below 12 and 6 ft lb, nothing about semi auto, just air guns. I have spoken to my own very efficient FA dept and they see this as very clear, under 6 pistol or 12 rifle is legal.

Looks like (yet again?) some Chief Officers, and some HO officials do not read their own documents, and are intent on making up their own laws and interpretations! These were never intended to be illegal, it was an error of ommision in the legislation, the HO office and the CPS accepted that in 1997, they circularised all Chief officers and HO with the sensible facts, they state it will be corrected at the next revision of legislation.

Nothing has changed, except people are discovereing old news, looking at part of the facts and jumping to conclusions.

[Terry D]

Looks like (yet again?) some Chief Officers, and some HO officials do not read their own documents, and are intent on making up their own laws and interpretations! These were never intended to be illegal, it was an error of ommision in the legislation, the HO office and the CPS accepted that in 1997, they circularised all Chief officers and HO with the sensible facts, they state it will be corrected at the next revision of legislation.

Nothing has changed, except people are discovereing old news, looking at part of the facts and jumping to conclusions.

Robin, trust me, I've read and re-read pretty much every communication on this subject and, like everyone else, I'd dearly like full clarification on this issue. As things stand, and according to every recent statement from the Home Office, the Section 5. 1 (ab) statement of the Firearms Act remains valid. I've asked my own advisers this morning and they tell me nothing has changed since the last statement from the Home Office.

Personally, I'd just like a simple, unequivocal, plain-speak statement, directly from the Home Office, that actually puts this one to bed once and for all. I completely understand that, with terrorism, border controls and everything else in the Home Office inbox right now, the clarification of the legality of SA airguns may not be at the top of the HO agenda, but if we push too hard for a 'resolution', it may arrive in a form not best suited to our sport.

Politics is a frustratingly complicated business and we need to play this game to our maximum benefit, as I'm sure you know. Thanks for your valiant attempts to clarify this situation, Robin, and I can only hope it's sorted as soon as possible. My breath is not held, mind.

All the best.

[RichardinDorset]

I see there is still no resolution to this issue!

NSRA are saying that the Home Office has still yet to provide any clear statement...