LP5/50 now section 5.

[grahamrob]

What do you target shooters know of this,it's been talked about on the Rimfire section here ?.

[Rich]

The article says that the CPS has told Harry Preston not to import any more, however they are not interested - apparently - in those pistols that are currently here. As they are under 6fpe the owners will have been able to buy them over the counter.

So, how can they be Section 5? It is illogical to say that any more would be Section 5 but the CPS are happy for all those - apparently now prohibited - pistols to continue in private ownership. That would mean the ones that are here aren't Section 5.

That wasn't what happened with the air cartridge saga. Those in circulation had to be licensed or surrendered.

[Powderfinger]

I agree with Rich. If sem-auto airguns are now Section 5, why aren't they planning to round up all the hundreds of SA airguns that have been circulating in the UK for decades? SA airguns that have been widely advertised and used in ISSF competitions in the UK. I don't think the CPS are really confident that these SA guns fall into the Section 5 definition and they might well lose the case if they tried posecuting someone for owning an SA airgun.

[Rich]

... especially as we have the HO circular and the CPS statement from 1998 or so, saying that nobody will be prosecuted just for ownership. Any defence brief worth his or her salt ought to be able to use that to good effect.

[RobinC]

This was a wrong interpretation of the law by a jobsworth, (not sure if its police or a polititian) which first came up early last year, and much of what is being quoted now comes from then, the fact is under 6 ft lb multi shot air pistols were legal in 1997 and still are now. This rumour came up early last year, and was debunked then, nothing has changed since.

The quoted statement from a Lords debate refers to high powered OVER 6ft lb air pistols, which of course are illegal now any way!

And the Sportsman Association claim that Harry was told to stop importing by the police, not the CPS. I have not spoken to Harry on this so not sure, but I have on hearsay that that issue was over a sporting rifle that used a similar action and was borderline legal, not the LP50

There is a statement today on the Stirton forum by an informed and respected NSRA council member with vast pistol and legal knowlege where he states he provided indisputable evidence to the NSRA and the Sportsman Association (which is the source of this scare) that these under 6 ft lbs five shot air pistols were legal in 1997 and that nothing has changed since to change that!

The Sportsman Association have used Steyr as an example, but Steyr have stopped production of the LP50, purely due to the ISSF dropping events Internationaly for five shot air, and there is not enough market for them, and possibly some problems in production. But if true ,the same would apply to any under 6ft lb multishot air pistol of any make, including the replica type ones ( another debate!), and those are still being imported by the shed load and are even stocked and sold by the NSRA.

As I own an LP50e, and also last year when this arose mine was on loan to a GB National squad member to do qualifying for a section 5 permit, I, as also did the National Squad looked seriously into this, it was debunked then and to my knowledge nothing has changed.

[gingernut]

That's the most sensible thing I have read on here about this topic Robin.
And correctly reflects the Law.

[coburn]

This was a wrong interpretation of the law by a jobsworth, (not sure if its police or a polititian) which first came up early last year, and much of what is being quoted now comes from then, the fact is under 6 ft lb multi shot air pistols were legal in 1997 and still are now. This rumour came up early last year, and was debunked then, nothing has changed since.

The quoted statement from a Lords debate refers to high powered OVER 6ft lb air pistols, which of course are illegal now any way!

And the Sportsman Association claim that Harry was told to stop importing by the police, not the CPS. I have not spoken to Harry on this so not sure, but I have on hearsay that that issue was over a sporting rifle that used a similar action and was borderline legal, not the LP50

There is a statement today on the Stirton forum by an informed and respected NSRA council member with vast pistol and legal knowlege where he states he provided indisputable evidence to the NSRA and the Sportsman Association (which is the source of this scare) that these under 6 ft lbs five shot air pistols were legal in 1997 and that nothing has changed since to change that!

The Sportsman Association have used Steyr as an example, but Steyr have stopped production of the LP50, purely due to the ISSF dropping events Internationaly for five shot air, and there is not enough market for them, and possibly some problems in production. But if true ,the same would apply to any under 6ft lb multishot air pistol of any make, including the replica type ones ( another debate!), and those are still being imported by the shed load and are even stocked and sold by the NSRA.

As I own an LP50e, and also last year when this arose mine was on loan to a GB National squad member to do qualifying for a section 5 permit, I, as also did the National Squad looked seriously into this, it was debunked then and to my knowledge nothing has changed.

Good write up, might be worth a few more on this forum reading this, and gaining a better understanding of the law.

[RobinC]

Thanks, but don't blame me if some a****ole changes the law tomorrow!!

I'm not into the replica's, can any one tell me if they are semi auto, or do they have to be manually recocked after ever shot?


Have Fun
Robin

[gingernut]

The Replicas shoot BBs and operate as the real steel.

Another triumph for our legislators.
The VCR Act banned the sale and importation of realistic imitation firearms.
The Foreign makers hired an English Lawyer ( not just someone off the BBS )

He advised them that airguns are firearms in the UK.
They were puzzled by that, but put up the power on their toy guns so that they became firearms.

So we now have plenty of higher powered replicas to play with.

OK its a bit of a story but the bits I didnt make up are true.

[Powderfinger]

Many of the airguns that look like real firearms are not semi-auto's even though they mimic semi-auto's in appearance. Their mechanism is operated by a pull of the trigger akin to a double-action revolver.
Most such guns are pellet firers but some fire BBs or can fire pellets or BBs.
Some of the airguns that look like real firearms are semi-auto's in that they prepare for firing the next BB by the blowback mechanism of the slide after the first shot has been fired by double-action or the slide has been racked or the hammer has been cocked.
Along with the semi-auto pellet firers that have been used for ISSF-style events for decades, there are hundreds possibly thousands of these guns in circulation.
If semi-auto airguns really are now Section 5 then presumably there will have to be a massive round-up and prosecutions of the owners. B
ut the authorities do not seem to have advocated such a round-up.
Which makes me agree with RobinC that semi-auto airguns of less than the 12fpe/6fpe limits are not Section 5, have never been Section 5 and have not suddenly been legally declared section 5...

[Fierynick]

I believe that the same person who raised the fact that such multi shot air pistols should be Section 5 had stated some years ago that these air pistols weren't to be listed as Section 5.
Confusion reigns supreme. I believe that Harry has been advised to cease selling these pending confirmation of the law. As he is required to be a Firearms Dealer to trade Air Weapons he would be daft to leave himself open to problems surrounding the legitimacy of areas of his business, especially where the law seems ambiguous.
At present these pistols are not listed as Section 5, and I would think it highly unlikely that they would become so. As previously mentioned this would mean that overnight there would be numerous illegal firearms in the UK. I suspect that this is a headache that neither the Home Office or the Police would want.
For your information the British Shooting website states the requirements for shooters seeking Section 5 privilege.

[silvershooter]

Have fun

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/swiss-arms-...ir-Guns/741903

[Rich]

When a contact of mine enquired of his Firearms Officer a year ago about having a sub 12fpe semi auto rifle, in his case a Steyr Hunting 5 SA, the reply he had - in writing - was to the effect that an airgun under 12 is an airgun under 12 regardless of any other consideration and therefore is exempt from licensing, so if you want one go and buy one.

[kippers]

When a contact of mine enquired of his Firearms Officer a year ago about having a sub 12fpe semi auto rifle, in his case a Steyr Hunting 5 SA, the reply he had - in writing - was to the effect that an airgun under 12 is an airgun under 12 regardless of any other consideration and therefore is exempt from licensing, so if you want one go and buy one.

I bought an LP50 and asked the same thing to my FLO. He told me the same thing. As long as it's sub 6ft lb, go ahead.

[Muskett]

Which is why if you want a nice black realistic bb pistol then buy a legal higher powered air pistol, as otherwise its join a airsoft club or have it in pink or bright blue.
Its a reaction to "cowboys and indians" in children's playgrounds. There are more user law with air guns for youngster though over airsolf. However, for airsolf the laws are so draconian and hardly worth bothering with. For adults buy an airgun.

A bit of an own goal there me thinks.