COAL and brass issue...

[enigma]

Right then guys....im as green as can be when it comes to reloading, please bear that in mind if you find my questions both tedious or silly.

I'm reloading .223 55g blitzkings. right so far I cleaned, deprimed and full length em, cleaned again, cut brass to 1.750, primed em, now this is where I have come to a stand still till further notice.

I thought I would see what my available COL is to lands. So I got a de-primed piece of brass and sat a bullet head bout .200" past recommended (2.260). Loaded into rifle and kinda forced it shut so it would seat against the lands, remeasured and its 2.340" a whole .120" bigger than max COAL.

I was gonna try putting it .010" of lands but is that advisable if the throat is long. what would you guys recommend.

Also without a head and just the brass loading into rifle it is still tight closing the bolt ....why??

atb and thanks

[Elliott]

So the remeasured overall length, after the dummy cartridge has been ejected, is 2.340"?

That seems quite short but clearly tells you not to start loading to the standard book length of 2.260"

I'd run the dummy round through a few more times, just to make sure the bullet hasn't accidentally slipped further into the neck of the case and start loading 0.010" from the lands. Don't start on the max load either, especially of the bullets are touching the lands - watch out for pressure signs on the ejected case.

Probably best to find a stable powder charge before experimenting with different COAL's to find the optimum recipe.

Some really knowledgeable chaps on here who helped me out when I first started so I'm sure there will be someone else along with some advice soon

[DedIdick]

How are you measuring the COAL? with a comparator fitted to your verniers? or just verniers?

The .223 oal of 2.260 was purely to ensure it fitted the M16 chamber & magazines.

Also without a xxxx Bullet and just the brass loading into rifle it is still tight closing the bolt ....why??

Tight chamber or case not fully resized properly.

[enigma]

using a dummy round to measure the COAL....head left out to 2.400" and then just forcing the bolt shut that pushes the bullet back into the case, then measure with Vernier.

[amc577]

As earlier post, if the case is causing a stiff bolt closure, after FLS, you may not have the resizing die correctly set up...may need to "overcam" the die to ensure the case shoulder is set back properly.
Correct OAL varies with whatever bullet you are using. The reloading book figures will be based on a particular brand of bullet.
Get the brass chambering properly before proceeding with the dummy round.

amc577

[enigma]

Overcam?? Right I set it up as follows. I lowered the arm then screwed the fld until it touched the shell holder. Then added a quarter turn. Then resized and de-primed the brass at the same time.

[Black Beard]

One of the important things with cartridge length is the length to the base of the bullet (COAL- bullet length). Ensure that this distance is not less than the published data if you are using maximum charges. Also watch out for increasing this distance on low charges of powders which don't like big air gaps.

Cases can increase in length if you only partially resize them. The sides get squashed in, which elongates it until the shoulder gets squashed back.

[strebblo]

Also don't get caught up in the whole 2 thou off the lands nonsense - for those who are happy to experiment (and if you're reloading then you should be) there is often a lot of accuracy to be found a few hundred thou back from the lands.

That's a fair few steps on from the sounds of it and I'd be making sure that everything is clean and well seated in your resizing set up, making sure there's no slop. It would be worth trying the same piece of brass in the FL die and the chamber: sizing, then chambering, then if it's still tight turning the die in another 1/4 or 1/8 turn and trying in the chamber again.

Even if you sacrifice one or two cases this way it's worth it.

You will also be picked up on the use of the term 'head' instead of bullet - in the main everyone knows what you mean as it's a common mistake, but it's akin to a novice mechanic referring to tyres on a car as alloys: "Yeah mate your car failed it's mot cos one of your alloys is a bit bald so you need two new wheels on the back."

Just out of intrest, what/how much lube are you using to full length size your brass?

My process for some recent new (to me) military 5.56 brass is:

1. De cap with a lee universal decapper
2. clean in the ultrasonic
3. dry (low oven/blow torch)
4. uniform primer pockets
5. deburr flash holes
6. anneal necks
7. lube and FL
8. trim and deburr/chamfer case mouths
9. chamber totally empty case to test and adjust die if needed (usually not)
10. prime
11. load up

I know that process will be a bit much for some people, but it's only my time and I'd rather have as much consistency from the off, even if it's just cheap/free brass, and actually its so far been excellent stuff, so worth the effort in my opinion.

[/ramble]

[enigma]

Also don't get caught up in the whole 2 thou off the lands nonsense - for those who are happy to experiment (and if you're reloading then you should be) there is often a lot of accuracy to be found a few hundred thou back from the lands.

That's a fair few steps on from the sounds of it and I'd be making sure that everything is clean and well seated in your resizing set up, making sure there's no slop. It would be worth trying the same piece of brass in the FL die and the chamber: sizing, then chambering, then if it's still tight turning the die in another 1/4 or 1/8 turn and trying in the chamber again.

Even if you sacrifice one or two cases this way it's worth it.

You will also be picked up on the use of the term 'head' instead of bullet - in the main everyone knows what you mean as it's a common mistake, but it's akin to a novice mechanic referring to tyres on a car as alloys: "Yeah mate your car failed it's mot cos one of your alloys is a bit bald so you need two new wheels on the back."

Just out of intrest, what/how much lube are you using to full length size your brass?

My process for some recent new (to me) military 5.56 brass is:

1. De cap with a lee universal decapper
2. clean in the ultrasonic
3. dry (low oven/blow torch)
4. uniform primer pockets
5. deburr flash holes
6. anneal necks
7. lube and FL
8. trim and deburr/chamfer case mouths
9. chamber totally empty case to test and adjust die if needed (usually not)
10. prime
11. load up

I know that process will be a bit much for some people, but it's only my time and I'd rather have as much consistency from the off, even if it's just cheap/free brass, and actually its so far been excellent stuff, so worth the effort in my opinion.

[/ramble]

Thanks to everyone for the advice....and yes strebblo I noticed my terminology had been picked up on earlier, but thanks for bearing with, as I say im green as when it comes to reloading. Regarding lube, I spray on and wait till evaporate, don't tend to put too much on but did get one stuck first attempt, so might have put a little too much on.

my regime up to this point was to

De cap and FL them (not got a universal, its on my list)
trim and deburr/chamfer case mouths and cham primer pocket(military crimp)
clean using ceramic media
dry (low oven)
uniform primer pockets
deburr flash holes
lube and FL again cos tumbling

I think the strebblo FL check 1/4 turn thing is a trier for sure. im still waiting for my brass / headspace gauge to be delivered so cant check against that either...keep it coming fellas I will take it all in

OH btw for all who have asked its a remmy 700 sps .223

[plonker]

FORGET ABOUT THE LANDS.Just load to recommend cartridge length with a few different powder charges and see what happens.I chased the lands with some rifles then got a 204 with a 200 thou jump from coal and got a superbly accurate round with the book measurement.Did the same with my 243 and 308 and both shoot well.
Atb
dave

[strebblo]

In theory you don't need the go/no-go gauge just for sizing. If you keep the size experimenting to one or two cases and just size, chamber, adjust, size, re-chamber adjust etc. Rinse and repeat until you're happy with the feel.

In you shoes though I would omit the extra FL step after tumbling. If media in the primer pockets is an issue, then deprime after tumbling.

[sarge4318]

Not sure about the Blitzkings but the Matchkings don't mind a jump to the lands.
As mentioned above, worry about the loadings first to standard book length and see what that gives you on target and then look at it again with this in mind. You might find the jump isn't as critical as you think.

[enigma]

Mr strebblo all I can say is.....when your right, your right.

upon returning from work this afternoon I did what strebblo said and just kept winding it in 1/8th or so turn until it felt right.....3/4 of a turn in and bingo!! it felt good.....real good.

but do you think I stopped there, oh no I tried another 1/8 turn and duff........I got the brass stuck. so now I gotta nip into work tomorrow to sort that out.

2nd one now ffs...I hate getting them stuck.

a real big thanks guys for all your help and I hope I will get better at this stuff....atb tim

[enigma]

Just one last thing folks...it just so happens I have primed 10 rounds could I just take the pin out my rcbs FL die and just reform them without having to decap em..

[strebblo]

Doh!

What lube are you using?