Always neck size other rifle's brass?

[zanes]

Chaps,

Interesting one here. I've always been told and read that when you're reloading cases that have not been fired in the rifle you're reloading for you must full length size. No qualifications, no "but if they chamber OK you're OK neck sizing only".

My question is- what am I missing here; the only reason I can think of for full length sizing is to prevent issues with the brass not fitting in the rifle's chamber (for a bolt action for target shooting). I have a quantity of once fired .300 Win Mag brass for my new to me rifle which was not fired in the rifle.

Happy to full length resize this time if necessary, but prefer neck sizing and trying to work out why I shouldn't.

[Parabuteo]

Chaps,

Interesting one here. I've always been told and read that when you're reloading cases that have not been fired in the rifle you're reloading for you must neck size. No qualifications, no "but if they chamber OK you're OK neck sizing only".

My question is- what am I missing here; the only reason I can think of for full length sizing is to prevent issues with the brass not fitting in the rifle's chamber (for a bolt action for target shooting). I have a quantity of once fired .300 Win Mag brass for my new to me rifle which was not fired in the rifle.

Happy to full length resize this time if necessary, but prefer neck sizing and trying to work out why I shouldn't.

Its an odd one Zanes.

Some folk I know insist on FL sizing every firing. If you do that with a rifle that has a generous head space, you may well be speeding up the destruction of your brass by work hardening it near the head and stretching and compressing it as the lot moves forwards and stops at the shoulders.

When I used to FL resize for my .303, the brass would give up after about 3 shots. As soon as I went to neck only (after an initial reset for once fired) they last for 10 or so...I have not had a separation since doing this and the primer pockets tend to give up before the cases do.

It depends a lot on your rifle, but with once fired brass I would always normalise it and work from there. I recently had a first which was my M67 refusing to chamber some hand loads. I had (without thinking about it) bunged some fresh brass in to top up some lost cases that had been prepped, less FL sizing.

They had come from a big bag of .308 that had been through any one of 12 AIs, my bad...

I now have 3 big tubs and when cases come back they get dumped into the "Needs cleaning" tub. When de-capped and cleaned they go into the "Needs sizing tub" where they get that and any trimming that needs doing, then they go to the "loading" tub....all in their respective boxes of course.

Also, some rifles actually seem to shoot FL resized cases better for each firing. Some will also become un-chamberable after 5 firings or so (A certain to shot told me that he FL resized after 5 firings after not being able to chamber rounds that had been fired in his rifle but just neck sized).

There is no one size fits all solution mate. My intention is to work the brass and my fingers as little as possible....and keep it consistent.

Oddly, if I use federal .308 brass (which I have been using as they come free) I need to open the necks with a mandrel after any sizing as they tend to scrape the bullets.

[zanes]

Thanks Parabeuto.

I've been stung by a similar situation to that you describe when I bought some deprimed (but not sized) 308 brass a while back. Got halfway through FL'ing the batch at the end of a reloading session and then packed up. A few weeks later when priming cases I found that box and, as I always resize when depriming, assumed they'd been sized. It was only when I came to bullet seating I realised why the bullets were a "tad" loose in some of the cases. That taught me a lesson....

I can certainly see your point about "resetting" the brass to a known state (i.e. FL sizing them this time around).

In the absence of any definitive reasoning I suppose the thing to do would be a thorough check of chamber fit across the entire batch and go from there. If it's good I think I'll neck size; 300 win mag brass life with FL sizing is not good from what I've read.

[Randy Bohannon]

The answer to this is something called "partial full length neck size", it's easier to google the details than it is for me to repeat them.

th basic idea is to use the FL die to just kiss the shoulder of the case at the end of the reloading stroke. The headspace is kept fairly tight, only about 0.002" shoulder set back or so that it chambers with barely any resistance, comparable to neck sizing and the case chambers like butter.

I started doing this after finding that the cases in my 06 were stretching after 5 firing cycles, sized with a lee collet die.

FL sizing once fired brass is just good practice as far as I'm concerned though, gives a baseline after trimming for sorting.

[JB101]

I would full length resize , trim to length , then load - fire and then neck size. That way you start at known constant .
I would only then FL resize when difficult to chamber/or the cases stretch.

James

[Treebone]

I have never neck or full length sized new brass and never will, i do however even out out of round necks if needed.
I dont understand why some handloaders size new brass all they re doing is introducing one extra work hardening cycle, if factory loaded ammunition is acceptable then why not new brass from the same maker?
All the brass comes off the same line, there are no seperate runs for handloading brass and factory ammo brass they are all the same.

Ian.

[kennyc]

Chaps,

Interesting one here. I've always been told and read that when you're reloading cases that have not been fired in the rifle you're reloading for you must neck size. No qualifications, no "but if they chamber OK you're OK neck sizing only".

My question is- what am I missing here; the only reason I can think of for full length sizing is to prevent issues with the brass not fitting in the rifle's chamber (for a bolt action for target shooting). I have a quantity of once fired .300 Win Mag brass for my new to me rifle which was not fired in the rifle.

Happy to full length resize this time if necessary, but prefer neck sizing and trying to work out why I shouldn't.

I would always full length size once fired brass from another rifle at least the first time, then at least you don't go all the way through the process to find out later that half won't chamber, for example one of my .308's produces cases that won't chamber in the other, same make model and calibre ! not a problem if you full length size, but a buggerence if you have neck sized them! start from a known point and the worlds the mollusc of your choice

[enfield2band]

The term "resetting" the cartridge case is Form Firing.
A new case, when you fire it, will stretch to suit the chamber of the rifle. The next time you use it it does not have to stretch and the gas flow will be more consistent which results in better accuracy. After it has been Form Fired all you need to do is neck size.
The same applies to once fired case from another rifle. If they chamber then form fire them. If they do not chamber FL resize.

When you fire a cartridge the brass flows forwards, that is why you have to trim them after 3-4 loadings.
This brass you trim off comes from the base of the cartridge which gets thinner each time you fire the cartridge. Look out for a shiny ring near the base. If you see one scrap the case as it will separate if you continue using it.
If you want to see what I mean get a piece of plasticine and roll it into a cylinder and then stretch it from either end until it snaps. This is what happens to the brass at the base with continued use.

[sidesy]

i have no doubt it would work but its the one that gets stuck "like a good'un" that would put my off the reloading lottery.

[zanes]

Thanks all. Looks like the only sensible option is to try chambering each case and see what the go/no go rate is like.

As the win mag is fairly hard on brass I don't want to be working it any more than I have to.

[amc577]

I have always read that you FLS new cases or once fired cases if you are then going to fire them in another rifle. I bought 300 odd 308 once fired cases and none of them would chamber in my Howa without FLS...after firing, neck sizing was fine. 5 or 6 firings with neck sizing...the bolt becomes a little stiff indicating FLS needed again. I have not had to trim the Lapua cases so far..they seem to be indestructible!

amc577

[strebblo]

Chaps,

Interesting one here. I've always been told and read that when you're reloading cases that have not been fired in the rifle you're reloading for you must neck size. No qualifications, no "but if they chamber OK you're OK neck sizing only".

My question is- what am I missing here; the only reason I can think of for full length sizing is to prevent issues with the brass not fitting in the rifle's chamber (for a bolt action for target shooting). I have a quantity of once fired .300 Win Mag brass for my new to me rifle which was not fired in the rifle.

Happy to full length resize this time if necessary, but prefer neck sizing and trying to work out why I shouldn't.

I just re-read your first post Zanes, is that a typo about only neck sizing? As it should be Full Length Sized if you've got fired brass from another rifle. Sorry if that's been picked up on by another poster already!

If you're really worried about case life in yer 300WM, it might be worth considering getting the chamber cut to an ackley chamber - a friend of mine did this with his 300 Winmag and gets much improved case life, very low stretch and a good few more FPS too..

[zanes]

I just re-read your first post Zanes, is that a typo about only neck sizing? As it should be Full Length Sized if you've got fired brass from another rifle. Sorry if that's been picked up on by another poster already!

If you're really worried about case life in yer 300WM, it might be worth considering getting the chamber cut to an ackley chamber - a friend of mine did this with his 300 Winmag and gets much improved case life, very low stretch and a good few more FPS too..

Yes, I did mean Full Length Size there. D'oh!

And the thread title is wrong too. FML, I should step away from the reloading bench.....

[JB101]

I would recommend hand loading for competition by glen zediker IMO one of the best books on reloading for all levels of experience .

Check out his web site as there are a few downloads available

Regards
James

[bewsh]

I disagree with the need for full length sizing unless the case is not chambering.
That is the only reason to fl size imo

I shoot 300wm
I only neck size, lee collet die, I also crimp.
I haven't had to trim any of the brass
I am still using the same 200 new norma cases I bought with the rifle some years back
My loads include a max load 78gr h1000 under 208gr amax
I have no pressure signs despite the high charge the case size is higher volume than most brands keeping the pressure down.

Most cases are 5-7 firings, none have been annealed and none have any signs of work hardening

People often "oversize" their cases when FL sizing, by this I mean they bump the shoulder back too much.
Every rifle is different
You should set your FL die so that the case only just chambers without pressure on the bolt
Best way to do this is with the pin and spring removed, no pressure, all you are feeling is the case
Keep sizing and chambering an undersized case until it just drops the handle.
Set the die there, that is it head spacing off the shoulder.
Any more and you will get shorter brass life, case growth, primer pocket wear, and worse precision results from your loads (precision is group size, accuracy is group location)

Belted cases are headspaced off the belt.
This is a legacy system to allow hunters in very hot climates to use ammo with confidence
This was mainly to allow for slicker chambering and reloading in potentially dangerous circumstances, brass swells in heat, can stick in the chamber, add dust or sweat to the equation and a charging buffalo.....

I do not believe that sizing to headspace off the belt is the best way for accuracy or brass life in a normal hunting situation.
Size like you would above for a bottle neck cartridge, minimal if any shoulder space
Ignore the belt, 1000 yard shooters were doing this for 50yrs before I discovered it! It's not new

Here is why:
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.u...gnum+headspace

The belt holds the case and exacerbates the case stretch when full length sized, leading to the case head separation I experienced on heavily worked brass I inherited with the rifle.

If it chambers, Size the important bit, the neck
If it doesn't chamber. Size the bit that is causing the restriction, but only just