How tight? - Spring Guide & Top Hat

[rabbitslayer]

As I told you this morning, when in use its not as tight, but you will need to remove it to reduce the spring! My wife assembles and boxes the kits, so I think it's more likely its just a little stuck and a quick clockwise twist with rubber (as described in this mornings pm) will have it moving. Unless she was angry when she fitted it?!
All kits have a lifetime guarantee, but I put an identical one in my new HW80k last week. It shoots lurvely!

Sorry tinbum, but I didn't realise you'd replied to my earlier pm. Anyhow, what you've said makes sense in that the coils open out under compression and therefore is looser when fitted in the action. What is interesting though is just how many differing opinions there are on the subject.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

[rabbitslayer]

I fitted a 'Tbt tuning' kit to my 95k, the guides were quite tight to start off with but after 200-300 shots it settled in nicely, my advice would be to shoot it in !...

What was it that made it apparent that the fit had loosened off?

[tinbum]

Sorry tinbum, but I didn't realise you'd replied to my earlier pm. Anyhow, what you've said makes sense in that the coils open out under compression and therefore is looser when fitted in the action. What is interesting though is just how many differing opinions there are on the subject.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

No worries and please do! You have my phone number, ring if you need to.

[Shed tuner]

I like my guides to be tight.. to the point where you screw them onto the spring, but not so tight that you cant do it easily by hand. Tophat i like to just stick in the end of the spring, easily able to pull out with two fingers.
Reason being the front end easily rotates in the piston whilst the guide keeps the spring straight during compression as well as at rest. It works for me

Ditto

[TORNADOS7]

What was it that made it apparent that the fit had loosened off?

The more I shot it the smoother the rifle became, eventually I had to bring the power back down to were I'd set it at reassembly (10.7) I've since sold it to a mate and regularly give it the once over for him, he's put a further 2000+ pellets through it and it's still running 10.7 and shoots as smooth as butter !...

Ps, in fact it's that good I keep trying to twist his arm to sell it back to me !...

[rabbitslayer]

I have and I'm in peterborough

bucketboy,

Your in box is full...

[bozzer]

I always get a bit confused when it comes to comments on guide fit.

I understand that the spring will open up slightly when cocked.

I used to do at least one HW77 in winter as a project. I tried with the guides tight. Lower power and less consistent over the chrono. So I made them a slide in and out fit. More power ( so less spring ) and better consistency over the chrono. So I made mine a contact but slide fit.

[POK!]

I always get a bit confused when it comes to comments on guide fit.

I understand that the spring will open up slightly when cocked.

I used to do at least one HW77 in winter as a project. I tried with the guides tight. Lower power and less consistent over the chrono. So I made them a slide in and out fit. More power ( so less spring ) and better consistency over the chrono. So I made mine a contact but slide fit.

I think what some of the other posters are getting at is the spring will relax when installed, but it depends on how much pre-load and # of coils. If tight works, it works, if it doesn't change it.

[Shed tuner]

I think what some of the other posters are getting at is the spring will relax when installed, but it depends on how much pre-load and # of coils. If tight works, it works, if it doesn't change it.

yep, preload and coil pitch make a big difference to how much it opens...

[Mark A]

Well i bought a drop in kit for my new HW95 and the spring guide is quite a loose fit on the supplied titan spring, almost as loose as the original guide was . Its also an inch shorter, but I guess this is to make room for the top hat? The spring ends are also just ground flat but not polished, i'm sure the spring ends were polished in the vmach kit i got a while back, kinda wishing i'd stumped up the extra now.

As long as it gets rid of the comically bad twang and brings it up to power i'll be happy.

[POK!]

Well i bought a drop in kit for my new HW95 and the spring guide is quite a loose fit on the supplied titan spring, almost as loose as the original guide was . Its also an inch shorter, but I guess this is to make room for the top hat? The spring ends are also just ground flat but not polished, i'm sure the spring ends were polished in the vmach kit i got a while back, kinda wishing i'd stumped up the extra now.

As long as it gets rid of the comically bad twang and brings it up to power i'll be happy.

V-mach springs are ground, reamed and edged. I was told the finish on the last coil is solely down to the state of the disc grinding wheel. That's straight from the horses mouth. Comically bad is how I'd describe the twang on my 99 when new as well.

[rabbitslayer]

The more I shot it the smoother the rifle became, eventually I had to bring the power back down to were I'd set it at reassembly (10.7) I've since sold it to a mate and regularly give it the once over for him, he's put a further 2000+ pellets through it and it's still running 10.7 and shoots as smooth as butter !...

Ps, in fact it's that good I keep trying to twist his arm to sell it back to me !...

OK, I understand what you're saying but isn't the point of 'tuning' a rifle, to get it to shoot as smoothly, consistently and as accurately as possible in the first place?

The tuning threads and guides I've read (and Iv'e read a few), all explain in detail the importance of burnishing, lubricating and polishing in order to allow all internal contact surfaces to work as freely and 'SMOOTHLY' as possible together which is key to getting the best out of the rifle. So... after doing all that why then go and fit something that's so tight and grabby, that it needs wearing in and takes away consistency and accuracy until it's worn sufficiently enough to fit properly?

If the guide had to wear itself down before the rifle improved it was obviously too tight a fit to start with, surely?

[TORNADOS7]

OK, I understand what you're saying but isn't the point of 'tuning' a rifle, to get it to shoot as smoothly, consistently and as accurately as possible in the first place?

The tuning threads and guides I've read (and Iv'e read a few), all explain in detail the importance of burnishing, lubricating and polishing in order to allow all internal contact surfaces to work as freely and 'SMOOTHLY' as possible together which is key to getting the best out of the rifle. So... after doing all that why then go and fit something that's so tight and grabby, that it needs wearing in and takes away consistency and accuracy until it's worn sufficiently enough to fit properly?

If the guide had to wear itself down before the rifle improved it was obviously too tight a fit to start with, surely?

Depends on what you expect from a tune I spose, most rifles no matter how well tuned they are will still need to be run in and it's during this 'running-in' period that the rifle turns from a well tuned springer into one of the best rifles you've ever shot, when I first tuned my '95k' the difference between the standard rifle and the tuned one was unbelievable, what happened over the next few hundred shots left me pretty much lost for words and mine was just a basic home tune, leaves me wondering what a professional tuner is capable of !...

[Mark A]

Well I got my HW95 back together and its better than it was but there's still a bit of twang. Not impressed at all, wish I had paid another £20 and got a Vmach kit now but these are given glowing reviews all over the various airgun forums so thought they were worth a try.

Could it just be that it needs a few shots through it all to bed in or if its twanging straight after fitting it wont get any better? I suspect its due to the loose fitting guide, although there might be room to fit a ptfe piston liner inside the steel liner which could help.

[Bob P]

I make my spring guides to be a firm sliding fit, if it needs to be twisted in then it's too tight for me and I shave a little more off.
Almost every spring I have worked on has had a smaller opening, 0.1mm/0.2mm smaller than the overall ID, maybe it's caused by the finishing process but I always run a dremel round to inside of the opening.
Bob