Need help Identifying This JEM? 1900's air rifle for repairs please.

[shovelchop81]

Hi! My local gunshop owner and gunsmith has entrusted me to fix this antique break barrel rifle for him as I've done plenty of work for him in the past with modern airguns (he sticks to powder burners) but this is a little different from what I'm used to. I'm pretty sure it needs a new piston seal, breach seal and the piston spring lock repaired. All I know is that it's German possibly made by JEM, .177 and sold in England by Roberts Gun Maker Steelhouse Lane; he said it's 1900's but looks earlier to me but what do I know? Any info on materials used for these types of rifles' seals etc.. would great, could be leather, early real rubber, no idea but would like to try and repair it as close a possible to stock before I go all modern on it. Cheers!



Ah..it would appear I'm not allowed to post images yet so I can only suggest this link that has all the images in one place as a thread on UBC, sorry for the inconvenience!

http://umarexboysclubforum.myfinefor...p?f=14&t=21404

[Garvin]

Hi! My local gunshop owner and gunsmith has entrusted me to fix this antique break barrel rifle for him as I've done plenty of work for him in the past with modern airguns (he sticks to powder burners) but this is a little different from what I'm used to. I'm pretty sure it needs a new piston seal, breach seal and the piston spring lock repaired. All I know is that it's German possibly made by JEM, .177 and sold in England by Roberts Gun Maker Steelhouse Lane; he said it's 1900's but looks earlier to me but what do I know? Any info on materials used for these types of rifles' seals etc.. would great, could be leather, early real rubber, no idea but would like to try and repair it as close a possible to stock before I go all modern on it. Cheers!



Ah..it would appear I'm not allowed to post images yet so I can only suggest this link that has all the images in one place as a thread on UBC, sorry for the inconvenience!

http://umarexboysclubforum.myfinefor...p?f=14&t=21404

Lots of information here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/661795

[DCL_dave]

Hi! My local gunshop owner and gunsmith has entrusted me to fix this antique break barrel rifle for him as I've done plenty of work for him in the past with modern airguns (he sticks to powder burners) but this is a little different from what I'm used to. I'm pretty sure it needs a new piston seal, breach seal and the piston spring lock repaired. All I know is that it's German possibly made by JEM, .177 and sold in England by Roberts Gun Maker Steelhouse Lane; he said it's 1900's but looks earlier to me but what do I know? Any info on materials used for these types of rifles' seals etc.. would great, could be leather, early real rubber, no idea but would like to try and repair it as close a possible to stock before I go all modern on it. Cheers!



Ah..it would appear I'm not allowed to post images yet so I can only suggest this link that has all the images in one place as a thread on UBC, sorry for the inconvenience!

http://umarexboysclubforum.myfinefor...p?f=14&t=21404

Hi,

It looks like an Eisenwerke Gaggenau model No. 13, AKA the 'Jewel Gem'...these were available from the factory in nickel and blued finishes (models 13a and 13b), think the nickel finish had a black painted stock too. Sold by Lane's as the Jewel Gem.

link to the EG catalogue here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/66179...85504/view+all

[shovelchop81]

Lots of information here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/661795

Wow perfect! Thank you so much! Now I can even spell the name correctly!

[Josie & John]

As Dave says, these German imports were mostly marketed under the Jewel name rather than Gem. Roberts would have been the original retailer and his badge adds interesting provenance to this example. The rifle was also sold by Lincoln Jeffries as the Lincoln before he resurrected the name for his groundbreaking underlever and Lanes sold it too with an upgraded trigger.

I would get the gun working if it is not and maybe clean it up a little rather than overdo it by refinishing. These are now over a century old and just to have one in working order for an occasional shot is more than acceptable. They were used for target shooting at the turn of the Twentieth Century and were capable of some very good accuracy. I've been testing one for Airgun World and will submit a review in due course. The example I have used has a lovely tight breech and groups very well at 6 yards, although it does shoot a little high.

Kind regards,

John

[shovelchop81]

Hi,

It looks like an Eisenwerke Gaggenau model No. 13, AKA the 'Jewel Gem'...these were available from the factory in nickel and blued finishes (models 13a and 13b), think the nickel finish had a black painted stock too. Sold by Lane's as the Jewel Gem.

link to the EG catalogue here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/66179...85504/view+all

Brilliant! I'll have to go through these carefully a they look rather similar for a newbie in this area, I also don't speak German which is something I hadn't considered with modern auto translate etc...

As Dave says, these German imports were mostly marketed under the Jewel name rather than Gem. Roberts would have been the original retailer and his badge adds interesting provenance to this example. The rifle was also sold by Lincoln Jeffries as the Lincoln before he resurrected the name for his groundbreaking underlever and Lanes sold it too with an upgraded trigger.

I would get the gun working if it is not and maybe clean it up a little rather than overdo it by refinishing. These are now over a century old and just to have one in working order for an occasional shot is more than acceptable. They were used for target shooting at the turn of the Twentieth Century and were capable of some very good accuracy. I've been testing one for Airgun World and will submit a review in due course. The example I have used has a lovely tight breech and groups very well at 6 yards, although it does shoot a little high.

Kind regards,

John

Thank you so much! I only intend to have it working again not damage any patina or history of the rifle which is why I was asking what materials were used to make seals for these? The owner has another working one that shoots very well (he bought them as a pair) but of course we won't be taking that apart just to inspect the seal material. I have shot it and as you said very accurate with quite a kick for a little thing! ;-)

[DCL_dave]

Brilliant! I'll have to go through these carefully a they look rather similar for a newbie in this area, I also don't speak German which is something I hadn't considered with modern auto translate etc...



Thank you so much! I only intend to have it working again not damage any patina or history of the rifle which is why I was asking what materials were used to make seals for these? The owner has another working one that shoots very well (he bought them as a pair) but of course we won't be taking that apart just to inspect the seal material. I have shot it and as you said very accurate with quite a kick for a little thing! ;-)

There should be a machined fit piston inside...so there is no replaceable piston seal as such but a seal can be fitted if need be...Gems have been seen with various types of seal from machined fit metal piston through leather cup seals, even hemp string as been used to effect a seal. The breech seal is usually leather though.

Take it apart and see what is inside

[shovelchop81]

There should be a machined fit piston inside...so there is no replaceable piston seal as such but a seal can be fitted if need be...Gems have been seen with various types of seal from machined fit metal piston through leather cup seals, even hemp string as been used to effect a seal. The breech seal is usually leather though.

Take it apart and see what is inside

Funnily enough I'd been thinking of hemp as a possible period option! I really hope someone has cut a groove for a seal in the past as I don't have a lathe . Guess I just have to crack it open and see what's inside. Cheers for the great info!

[DCL_dave]

Funnily enough I'd been thinking of hemp as a possible period option! I really hope someone has cut a groove for a seal in the past as I don't have a lathe . Guess I just have to crack it open and see what's inside. Cheers for the great info!

If it does have a machined fit piston just try giving it smear of moly grease first, which usually does the trick of sealing these guns...but if you do have to put a piston seal in it, the best way is to machine the front 5-6mm off the piston, drill and tap for a screw and fit a leather cup seal...but beware that a typical Gem piston is usually hardened and can be a bugger to machine.

[shovelchop81]

If it does have a machined fit piston just try giving it smear of moly grease first, which usually does the trick of sealing these guns...but if you do have to put a piston seal in it, the best way is to machine the front 5-6mm off the piston, drill and tap for a screw and fit a leather cup seal...but beware that a typical Gem piston is usually hardened and can be a bugger to machine.

Great advise! I'll just pray the moly works!!! Thank you!

[DCL_dave]

Great advise! I'll just pray the moly works!!! Thank you!

Keep us updated please as moly grease usually does the trick. One thing though, don't get too hung-up trying to make it too powerful...3 to 5 FPE is plenty for these old girls!...they were only designed to sling a dart or slug over distances of 6 to 10 yards...and if it does need a seal making and fitting..<sigh> ..I would be happy to do it if you do get stuck.

If you need a new mainspring?..Protek have two types of mainspring for these old Gems in stock, and you'll most likely need the smaller of the two sizes they do but measure the inside of the piston and check with Vic and Phil first before ordering.

[shovelchop81]

Keep us updated please as moly grease usually does the trick. One thing though, don't get too hung-up trying to make it too powerful...3 to 5 FPE is plenty for these old girls!...they were only designed to sling a dart or slug over distances of 6 to 10 yards...and if it does need a seal making and fitting..<sigh> ..I would be happy to do it if you do get stuck.

If you need a new mainspring?..Protek have two types of mainspring for these old Gems in stock, and you'll most likely need the smaller of the two sizes they do but measure the inside of the piston and check with Vic and Phil first before ordering.

I really hope it doesn't come to that and it will be up to the owner to decide not me but thank you again for all your support, information and advice!

[shovelchop81]

Hi! Thanks again for all the help I've received! I'm trying to locate a parts diagram for this rifle with Google but no luck at all. I've removed the stock plate, the long retaining rod/bolt allowing the stock to be removed with said bolt, I even removed the rear most bolt/screw at the bottom of the receiver (it might be partially stripped) and the pin from the forward hinge of the cocking lever/action. But for the life of me can't see how the rear butt plate of the receiver (spring stop plate) can be removed, there are no pins, screws/bolts, spring clips or any kind of release mechanism I can locate and of course being totally ignorant of this rifle the last thing I want to do is use any unnecessary brute force. I imagine this is something you could all do in your sleep but I work on modern guns so I'm terrified of damaging something I don't have spare parts for! Can someone please let me know the trick to this procedure and warn me of any thing that might follow such as a giant spring in my face? Thank you very much and sorry for the newbie nagging! I haven't done that in a long time!

[DCL_dave]

There is a pinch-bolt type screw at the rear end cylinder that squeezes the end of the cylinder together around the endplug threads...slacken that screw a turn and just unscrew the endplug and stock as one unit (it is a normal right hand thread). There may be some preload...expect it anyway but it shouldn't be too much, maybe an inch or so...


I have copied one of your pictures and edited it with a black arrow pointing to the screw you need to slacken off >>HERE<<, then just unscrew whole back end as one unit.

You will also need to remove the pin holding the cocking link to the breechblock before you can withdraw it and the cocking shoe from its slot up along the flange, you need to do this before you can remove the piston (pull trigger so that piston rides over the sear)

Hope this helps

[DCL_dave]

Hi! Thanks again for all the help I've received! I'm trying to locate a parts diagram for this rifle with Google but no luck at all. I've removed the stock plate, the long retaining rod/bolt allowing the stock to be removed with said bolt, I even removed the rear most bolt/screw at the bottom of the receiver (it might be partially stripped) and the pin from the forward hinge of the cocking lever/action. But for the life of me can't see how the rear butt plate of the receiver (spring stop plate) can be removed, there are no pins, screws/bolts, spring clips or any kind of release mechanism I can locate and of course being totally ignorant of this rifle the last thing I want to do is use any unnecessary brute force. I imagine this is something you could all do in your sleep but I work on modern guns so I'm terrified of damaging something I don't have spare parts for! Can someone please let me know the trick to this procedure and warn me of any thing that might follow such as a giant spring in my face? Thank you very much and sorry for the newbie nagging! I haven't done that in a long time!

Sorry just read you post again...properly this time too!

Right, having got as far as you have...wrap a piece of leather around the endplug, clamp on a pair of molegrips and just unscrew it.

If it is still tight just put a big slotted screwdriver in the slot and turn it to open the cylinder a little, freeing up the endplug hopefully...watch it doesn't fly off though!