Abandoning Regulators...

[bucketboy]

Metered pulses of air is what we want ALL THE SAME one after the other.

what reg gives a "metered" pulse of air? all the regs I know about simply step down the pressure.

Only guns I know of that use the same amount of air at the same pressure are springers

[Nessmuk]

what reg gives a "metered" pulse of air? all the regs I know about simply step down the pressure.

Only guns I know of that use the same amount of air at the same pressure are springers

Surely if the regulator is always giving the same pressure it is metered in a way. Wouldn't you need the same volume of air to achieve the same pressure every time. Or have I misunderstood how regulators work?

[lensman57]

Surely if the regulator is always giving the same pressure it is metered in a way. Wouldn't you need the same volume of air to achieve the same pressure every time. Or have I misunderstood how regulators work?

You are correct. A regulator set at a certain pressure will keep the volume of air in the firing pot ( this volume is fixed according to the pot dimension ) at that pressure therefore so long as there is no dramatic temperature change the energy contained in that volume of air is closely matched from shot to shot.
A none regulated gun however, can not give the same energy to the pellet from shot to shot. The firing valve works against the pressure of the cylinder at all times, the firing spring force being constant and the air pressure gradually dropping from shot to shot . If by some mechanism the force of the spring could be altered to suit the pressure of the cylinder then the shots could be consistent ( Daystate MkIV, MCT,MVT , though these use a computer to achieve the goal ). AA Guns are very well designed for a none regulated gun but even here the gun has an acceptable shot to shot consistency between 160~120 bar. A badly designed or faulty regulator is worse than none IMHO.

A.G

[bucketboy]

You are correct. A regulator set at a certain pressure will keep the volume of air in the firing pot ( this volume is fixed according to the pot dimension ) at that pressure therefore so long as there is no dramatic temperature change the energy contained in that volume of air is closely matched from shot to shot.
A none regulated gun however, can not give the same energy to the pellet from shot to shot. The firing valve works against the pressure of the cylinder at all times, the firing spring force being constant and the air pressure gradually dropping from shot to shot . If by some mechanism the force of the spring could be altered to suit the pressure of the cylinder then the shots could be consistent ( Daystate MkIV, MCT,MVT , though these use a computer to achieve the goal ). AA Guns are very well designed for a none regulated gun but even here the gun has an acceptable shot to shot consistency between 160~120 bar. A badly designed or faulty regulator is worse than none IMHO.

A.G

Not quite correct.

The reg steps down pressure where it is stored in a pre-valve chamber, the valve is knocked open allowing the stored lower pressure out of the valve but as soon as the pressure drops the reg tries to fill the prechamber, if the prechamber is too large then it might be a couple of shots before the reg reacts to fill chamber. if too small then the reg will top up the prechamber during the firing cycle. Even if the reg and prechamber work together then the stored pressure will still vary by several psi.

None regged guns have full pressure holding the valve shut, when full the hammer struggles to open the valve and lets a small amount of very high pressure out, with the next shot the stored pressure is very slightly less and the hammer is able to open the valve a little more, this cycle continues until the pressure is to low and pellet speed drops, each time though the pellet leaves the barrel at the same speed, but try messing with the barrel or transfer port size and it will have a power curve like a rainbow

As I have said I have both regged(3) and non regged (1) guns the only advantages of a reg is a higher shot count because the fill pressure is greater. My non regged gun is equally consistent shot to shot (in fact its very slightly better) OK it has less shots but less things to go wrong.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

Regulator = more moving parts, more O rings and bigger headaches.

Oh and extra cost.

[Shed tuner]

As I have said I have both regged(3) and non regged (1) guns the only advantages of a reg is a higher shot count because the fill pressure is greater. My non regged gun is equally consistent shot to shot (in fact its very slightly better) OK it has less shots but less things to go wrong.

Yup.. gone back to non regged on my rapid; more than enough shots and completely flat for 85 of them (small 200cc bottle, and deliberately low fill pressure as I use a pump) all within a few fps - with less to go wrong.