Abandoning Regulators...

[bucketboy]

You are correct. A regulator set at a certain pressure will keep the volume of air in the firing pot ( this volume is fixed according to the pot dimension ) at that pressure therefore so long as there is no dramatic temperature change the energy contained in that volume of air is closely matched from shot to shot.
A none regulated gun however, can not give the same energy to the pellet from shot to shot. The firing valve works against the pressure of the cylinder at all times, the firing spring force being constant and the air pressure gradually dropping from shot to shot . If by some mechanism the force of the spring could be altered to suit the pressure of the cylinder then the shots could be consistent ( Daystate MkIV, MCT,MVT , though these use a computer to achieve the goal ). AA Guns are very well designed for a none regulated gun but even here the gun has an acceptable shot to shot consistency between 160~120 bar. A badly designed or faulty regulator is worse than none IMHO.

A.G

Not quite correct.

The reg steps down pressure where it is stored in a pre-valve chamber, the valve is knocked open allowing the stored lower pressure out of the valve but as soon as the pressure drops the reg tries to fill the prechamber, if the prechamber is too large then it might be a couple of shots before the reg reacts to fill chamber. if too small then the reg will top up the prechamber during the firing cycle. Even if the reg and prechamber work together then the stored pressure will still vary by several psi.

None regged guns have full pressure holding the valve shut, when full the hammer struggles to open the valve and lets a small amount of very high pressure out, with the next shot the stored pressure is very slightly less and the hammer is able to open the valve a little more, this cycle continues until the pressure is to low and pellet speed drops, each time though the pellet leaves the barrel at the same speed, but try messing with the barrel or transfer port size and it will have a power curve like a rainbow

As I have said I have both regged(3) and non regged (1) guns the only advantages of a reg is a higher shot count because the fill pressure is greater. My non regged gun is equally consistent shot to shot (in fact its very slightly better) OK it has less shots but less things to go wrong.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

Regulator = more moving parts, more O rings and bigger headaches.

Oh and extra cost.

[Shed tuner]

As I have said I have both regged(3) and non regged (1) guns the only advantages of a reg is a higher shot count because the fill pressure is greater. My non regged gun is equally consistent shot to shot (in fact its very slightly better) OK it has less shots but less things to go wrong.

Yup.. gone back to non regged on my rapid; more than enough shots and completely flat for 85 of them (small 200cc bottle, and deliberately low fill pressure as I use a pump) all within a few fps - with less to go wrong.

[ChrisC]

I can't remember where I saw it but someone mentioned that some shooters are abandoning their aftermarket regulators in favour of unregulated air supply. Something about it being simpler just to find the sweet spot and working within that rather than deal with the unreliability of regs.

It might have been on the BSA forum.

Is this a lot of nonsense?

If i didn't know Steyrs so well i would be shooting an unregged MPR. IMHO there's nothing in accuracy that a regged gun can give over unregged.

p.s what happened to your 'serious' shooter post?

[PCPShooter]

JB has had a few regs out of rifles for customers who prefer the simpler option.Not an uncommon req he told me last time I saw him ....

I have a Hornet (reggd) and Scorpians -

I do know the sweetspot, I generally prefer un regg'd. I don't shoot FT, maybe at 45 / 50 yards regg'd helps, I cannot say. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever to accuracy at hunting / hft ranges

[1952paul0]

The Reg on my R10 is working quite well.

A.G

just so lucky

[bucketboy]

I do know the sweetspot, I generally prefer un regg'd. I don't shoot FT, maybe at 45 / 50 yards regg'd helps, I cannot say. It doesn't make any difference whatsoever to accuracy at hunting / hft ranges

A reg doesn't make a gun more accurate (although adjusting reg pressure ca help fine tune the gun to a preferred pellet) I routinely shot out to 100mts with all my sub 12fte guns, one of my regged guns is slightly better than the others (most likely the barrel) but my non regged .20 put a full mags worth of pellets (12) onto a 40mm spinner

[Adam.W]

Had been running a reg in s400 for 3-4 years. Very consistent and around 90 shots but the rebuild every 6-12 because of leaks proved too much. Now running fac air cylinder with slightly heavier hammer spring and venturi wound in to flatten the curve. Over 100 shots at 777fps with a +/-7fps spread which you will never notice, the extra weight from the cylinder makes positionals much easier. That worry of "when is it going to go wrong" has now disapeared

[bucketboy]

Had been running a reg in s400 for 3-4 years. Very consistent and around 90 shots but the rebuild every 6-12 because of leaks proved too much. Now running fac air cylinder with slightly heavier hammer spring and venturi wound in to flatten the curve. Over 100 shots at 777fps with a +/-7fps spread which you will never notice, the extra weight from the cylinder makes positionals much easier. That worry of "when is it going to go wrong" has now disapeared

Yep, if you know what you doing then setting up and maintaining a reg is not a problem but it is a chore and a worry which is why if I am walking 2 miles across fields to hunt I take the non regged gun every time!

[RobF]

Yep, if you know what you doing then setting up and maintaining a reg is not a problem but it is a chore and a worry which is why if I am walking 2 miles across fields to hunt I take the non regged gun every time!

Shouldn't need much if any maintenance if set up right. Problem is many aren't.

I'm not sure what non regged guns are doing but we've got one doing less than 1 fps Sd and over a wide range of pressures from a far lower volume bottle than a buddy bottle. It does help accuracy at long range but I guess it depends on the starting point.

I'll stick it on a list to record a shot string to see what it can do when I get 5 mins.

I think the problem is that people are putting aftermarket regs in and expecting wonders and they aren't setup right to start with or just not that good. Not only that but the knock open setups are setup around a much higher pressure and not the lower pressure the reg supplies which can affect the overall performance.

Standard regs aren't always better either. But I think most will give less SD over a pressure range of a smaller bottle but I guess it depends where you want to measure from.

[Hsing-ee]

If i didn't know Steyrs so well i would be shooting an unregged MPR. IMHO there's nothing in accuracy that a regged gun can give over unregged.

p.s what happened to your 'serious' shooter post?

It got too serious. I have addressed it now. Thanks for the reply. ATB Alistair

[Archer50]

Interesting timing for me as I’ve just got my first unregged gun – a seven year old S400 Classic (ie rifle length) .177. I’ve only had the gun for 5 days, but so far I’m quite impressed. I haven’t had time to run a lot of tests, but first time out I was able to shoot strings of over 80 pellets before there was any significant pellet drop at 45 yards indoors. That’s just about the same as my HW100 carbine with the A&M cylinder. What’s more, even with a very ropey trigger (now fixed) the groups were very tight, with no unexplained flyers: every bit as good as with my Steyr or Bobcat, and probably better than with the HW100.

I have often wondered how important regulators are for the sort of HFT and hunting I do, or whether they are mainly just something else to play with – and go wrong. Short distances and early days yet, but I think I might be coming closer to the answer.

[racerkart]

Other than an fn12, all air guns I've bought since have been springers. Which even if left lying for a while they only require a dozen shots to loosen things up, left for an hour or so and then zeroed, if required. Ready to go.

Just going to hijack the thread a second...read this and something i noted was if shooting say 3 shots a minute with spring the zero came back a few yards I.e. 30y zero came back to 27y. If left for a few minutes it would recover. This was visual but do springers require a 'chill out period' during shooting?

[RobF]

Just going to hijack the thread a second...read this and something i noted was if shooting say 3 shots a minute with spring the zero came back a few yards I.e. 30y zero came back to 27y. If left for a few minutes it would recover. This was visual but do springers require a 'chill out period' during shooting?

When working right, they should be spot on no matter what the time period. In FT we can shoot 2nd shot 30's after the last or 10 minutes if there's a stoppage. When working wrong, springers are a sod to troubleshoot.