Call for airgun licencing in England

[GoodWILLHunting]

Indeed.

But if a serious threat to shooters comes along are we going to fight it?--Or prattle on about cats shitting in gardens?

Having once heard some flat-capped old bastard talking about shooting cats in his garden, I have a theory that the cat shooters aren't 'numpties', 'chavs' and 'teenagers' but rather old and middle-aged men with lettuces and gladioli--you know, the sort of obsessively tidy twats who mow stripes on their lawns and clean their cars without fail every Sunday.

Well going on previous experience, it'll be the latter

[Terry D]

Just so you know, I did 12 'responses' to various media outlets, radio, newspaper and an, obviously bonkers lady with some blog or other that really shouldn't be allowed near anything sharp , and I have established contact with the Cats Protection League with a view to discussing this issue directly.

The plain fact is, we both want the same thing, here - the elimination of cat-shooting and the proper punishment of those who do it - so there must be a case for cooperation, rather than a pointless war and a campaign that seeks to punish the law-abiding and does nothing to prevent the problem.

It's early days but so far, dialogue is positive and I remain hopeful that something truly workable can be achieved.

In the mean time, please keep all responses to this issue, wherever you post them, responsible and properly thought through. The media watches this and other forums and any untoward comments could be used against us. We know we're good people, so please let's make sure everyone out there knows that, too.

[Nevbag]

What if it was made necessary to have a licence to buy pellets as well as air rifles (as with other firearms)? If the initial vetting procedure was carried out thoroughly then surely, the morons who refuse to comply would eventually run out of ammunition and be unable to purchase any more.

I was discussing the licencing issue only yesterday with a fellow shooter at my local HFT club and I suggested that our collective HFT/FT/Benchrest etc fraternity should perhaps invite persons from the growing 'anti' movement to attend a few properly organised competitions to see how the serious and responsible shooters conduct themselves.

He then reminded me that even some of our biggest competitions are sadly lacking when it comes to policing the safety rules. We all have to attend the safety briefing before we are allowed to shoot the competion, so far so good. How many times have we all seen even very experienced and big names in the HFT/FT community then go on to pick up their rifles by the 'scope, or fan the rifle around through 180 dgrees (barrel horizontal) when moving from peg to rifle case. It happens many many times. Ok, we know it's a single shot rifle and that shot has just been discharged but it still breaks the No 1 golden rule (if you don't know what that is then you should find out pdq). I know the question will be raised in your minds "why didn't you say something about it at the time you saw it happening?" Maybe I am a wuss who doesn't to rock the boat and create ill feeling which would spoil the sport for me.

My point is that perhaps we should concentrate on policing our sport more thoroughly before policing by a non-shooting and emotionally misguided outside agency is thrust upon us.

If we 'serious and responsible' shooters can prove ourselves to be squeaky clean in all aspects of our behaviour then we might stand a chance of saving our sport. It is up to the individual to make sure their conduct is exemplary.

The writing is on the wall and we should not ignore it.

Now I need to go and have a lie down.

Nev.

[gingernut]

6 pages on this.
A bit of wishful thinking by a Cat Charity and we all get hot and bothered??!!

If it was a Dog Charity maybe

[buttloaves]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...wales-scotland
What load of , this type of scaremongering should be banned or at least licensed.

[gingernut]

Luckily very few people buy the Star and those that do can't read.

[Salamander]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...wales-scotland
What load of , this type of scaremongering should be banned or at least licensed.

A piece of scurrilous fiction from the Pulitzer boys at the Daily Star. However the four comments (to date) below show some sensible reaction to it.

[TORNADOS7]

Just a little something for you guys to mull over, what exactly is it that we are opposed to, is it actually having to have a license in the first place or is it more about the possible terms and conditions of said license that we're concerned about ?...

[rich66]

I see on here that some people are saying instead of licensing that the local police have a register of who has an air rifle. The fact is the local RFD has a register of anyone buying or selling one through their shop and that has to be available to the police for inspection, that is the law. I dont think it will be long before we have some kind of licensing will happen just like Scotland. I have just heard that Three ducks, a moorhen and two baby geese have been shot dead in Hartley Wintney Village pond http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-36405668 If this sort of thing keeps happening it wont be long before more people will be calling for licensing.

[Airsporter1st]

What if it was made necessary to have a licence to buy pellets as well as air rifles (as with other firearms)? If the initial vetting procedure was carried out thoroughly then surely, the morons who refuse to comply would eventually run out of ammunition and be unable to purchase any more.

I was discussing the licencing issue only yesterday with a fellow shooter at my local HFT club and I suggested that our collective HFT/FT/Benchrest etc fraternity should perhaps invite persons from the growing 'anti' movement to attend a few properly organised competitions to see how the serious and responsible shooters conduct themselves.

He then reminded me that even some of our biggest competitions are sadly lacking when it comes to policing the safety rules. We all have to attend the safety briefing before we are allowed to shoot the competion, so far so good. How many times have we all seen even very experienced and big names in the HFT/FT community then go on to pick up their rifles by the 'scope, or fan the rifle around through 180 dgrees (barrel horizontal) when moving from peg to rifle case. It happens many many times. Ok, we know it's a single shot rifle and that shot has just been discharged but it still breaks the No 1 golden rule (if you don't know what that is then you should find out pdq). I know the question will be raised in your minds "why didn't you say something about it at the time you saw it happening?" Maybe I am a wuss who doesn't to rock the boat and create ill feeling which would spoil the sport for me.

My point is that perhaps we should concentrate on policing our sport more thoroughly before policing by a non-shooting and emotionally misguided outside agency is thrust upon us.

If we 'serious and responsible' shooters can prove ourselves to be squeaky clean in all aspects of our behaviour then we might stand a chance of saving our sport. It is up to the individual to make sure their conduct is exemplary.

The writing is on the wall and we should not ignore it.

Now I need to go and have a lie down.

Nev.

.... and what about those serious and responsible back-garden plinkers, who are not members of a club, but make up a good portion of the BBS membership? Will they be able to obtain this licence that you are so keen on?

[rogb]

Luckily very few people buy the Star and those that do can't read.

The circulation numbers of 420,000+ disagree with you. That's 419,000 more people than found on here.
The way things are going nothing will surprise me with regards to a license and if idiots choose to shoot wildlife in ponds and feline garden poopers, instead of less harmful means, then I will grudgingly accept it!
It seems the VCR Act is not having the desired effect, despite stopping us buying airguns and parts through mail order.

It really gets my piss boiling when I read these ridiculous Star stories and also hear about innocent animals harmed.
Yesterday about 35 of us shot a comp out to 65 yards in the pleasant sunshine, harming no one but enjoying a few hours outdoors. We are from all walks of life, and had a great time together knocking down some tin chickens with air rifles cheap and dear, with plenty of banter and laughter.
The fact is that very enjoyment may well be restricted, as it is in Scotland.
It's a bloody shame.

[TORNADOS7]

The circulation numbers of 420,000+ disagree with you. That's 419,000 more people than found on here.
The way things are going nothing will surprise me with regards to a license and if idiots choose to shoot wildlife in ponds and feline garden poopers, instead of less harmful means, then I will grudgingly accept it!
It seems the VCR Act is not having the desired effect, despite stopping us buying airguns and parts through mail order.

And there it is, you hit the nail squarely on the head there me ole mucker, the VCR act is obviously a failure along with most other lisencing systems that are imposed in this country be it driving, TV or otherwise, only the law abiding/easy targets get whacked for their minor discressions whilst the crim's (for the most part) get away scot free !...

[Kennyb]

Just a little something for you guys to mull over, what exactly is it that we are opposed to, is it actually having to have a license in the first place or is it more about the possible terms and conditions of said license that we're concerned about ?...

In my view we should oppose licensing of any description. Once we start down that road the licensing conditions (and fees!) will only get more onerous. One of the benefits of airgun shooting is that we can learn to shoot responsibly from a young age in our back gardens, without the hassle and cost of applying for a licence. If licenses were introduced it may well reduce the amount of new shooters into the sport, not just for airgun shooting but shooting in general. Perhaps that's the intention in some circles?

Many shooters start with airguns and then develop an interest in other forms of shooting. With the need for a license they may not bother jumping through the hoops to start airgunning in the first place. It would also appear that shooting in a back garden is not even a legitimate reason for obtaining a license in Scotland. It's also not clear whether having a license via club membership will allow shooting at home if the garden is not deemed suitable. Many people don't want to join clubs in any case but only want to shoot informally at home.

I may be wrong but my impression is that airgunning is less popular with younger people today than it was when I was growing up. With the need for licensing, this already reduced entry into the sport will further reduce demand for airguns, reduce R & D into all the fancy gear we use, reduce the number of clubs and ultimately reduce the health of the shooting industry as a whole. It will be interesting to see what effect licensing has in Scotland on the shooting industry and the amount of airgun clubs in a few years time.

Ultimately the problem is one of people acting irresponsibly. It has been said many times before that further penalising law abiding citizens, when criminals by their very definition don't care about the law, is not the way to tackle the problem. Gun crime has increased massively since Dunblane despite the banning of handguns. The solution in my view is the proper enforcement of existing laws and meaningful sentences to deter misuse in the first place. I also don't think you will get any disagreement from the cat charities etc on this point and could build common ground to tackle the problem without the knee jerk reaction of restricting ownership.

[TonyL]

Just so you know, I did 12 'responses' to various media outlets, radio, newspaper and an, obviously bonkers lady with some blog or other that really shouldn't be allowed near anything sharp , and I have established contact with the Cats Protection League with a view to discussing this issue directly.

The plain fact is, we both want the same thing, here - the elimination of cat-shooting and the proper punishment of those who do it - so there must be a case for cooperation, rather than a pointless war and a campaign that seeks to punish the law-abiding and does nothing to prevent the problem.

It's early days but so far, dialogue is positive and I remain hopeful that something truly workable can be achieved.

In the mean time, please keep all responses to this issue, wherever you post them, responsible and properly thought through. The media watches this and other forums and any untoward comments could be used against us. We know we're good people, so please let's make sure everyone out there knows that, too.

I hadn't looked in on this thread for a few days.

Perfect post, Terry and fully agree.

And the best of luck with the ongoing communications.

[derekj]

I propose a licencing of cats. Maybe this will reduce the number of song bird murders per year and maybe even a reduction in the number of unwanted cats using my garden as a toilet.;-)

We hardly see any cats in our garden any more, due to our cat seek and destroy German Shepherd bitch that patrols the garden. She has previously, cleverly crept up on cats and then sprinted silently towards them.