Did we have rifle weight MK pellets in the 70's?

[zooma]

When we used to shoot the Meisterkugeln pellets in the 70's we only ever used one type or weight of Meisterkugeln pellet (pistol) and we only ever used the one size (4.50) in our FWB 300S, Original Model 66 and 75, Walther LGR etc and other classic rifles of that time period.

Were rifle weight Meisterkugeln pellets available in the 70's ? . . . . maybe they were but we did not know about them or use them.

Were the 4.49 size of Meisterkugeln pellets made back then or were they all 4.50 until later when the 4.49 choice came along ?

Just interested to know as we all seemed happy with the one type and the one size of pellet back then and used them universally for pistol and rifle shooting without question - and they always seemed to work very well in both !

[RobinC]

OK! Clearly looking for the mature shooters here! (or a modern pellet anorak!)

As one of those old enough and who was involved in national and international rifle shooting then, I don't think there was other than 4.5 in those days.

During a clear out a few years back I found an unused tin of 200 Eley match from that period, I think the wife had been given them at the Brits at Cardiff and stuck to her RWS Meisterklugeln. Still have the tin, they are marked No 1 (.177") 4.5 mm. And also have an old pack of 200 Meisterklugeln also marked 4.5mm (not even 4.50). And our earliest test card for a Walther LGV Spezial is just marked 4.5 mm on the calibre and no options on the test group.

I know the wife used RWS Meisterklugeln in her Original 75, and later in her Walther LGR, and the old pack just had 4.5mm, I have no recolection of different sizes, but that could just be the ramblings of an old man, and it could be she just used 4.5?

I think the "selected" 200 packs came first, more concerned about standard and condition than size, that one has now drifted away , with most top level shooters using straight from the tin, or decanting into flat packs.

I think you'll need the pellet anoraks, to answer when the options came in, the best source will be on rifle test cards as they will be defined and dated, I'd guess at late 80's when the rifle techno war really started.

[zooma]

My memory from the early 70's is the same as yours.

Meisterkugeln was only available in 4.50 and only in the one weight - the heavy weight rifle versions came along later.

This made life easy - only one choice and one weight - however, it was possible to buy them in tins of 500 or in flat plastic trays of 100 ( 2 x 50) in a "selected" pack.

This must have also meant that some of those world records that most of us with our posh PCP and multiple choice of pellet sizes and pellet weights can only dream of aspiring to were set with a single choice of pellet - makes you wonder why we think we need so much more spohisitication these days doesn't it?

[Geezer]

My memory from the early 70's is the same as yours.

Meisterkugeln was only available in 4.50 and only in the one weight - the heavy weight rifle versions came along later.

This made life easy - only one choice and one weight - however, it was possible to buy them in tins of 500 or in flat plastic trays of 100 ( 2 x 50) in a "selected" pack.

This must have also meant that some of those world records that most of us with our posh PCP and multiple choice of pellet sizes and pellet weights can only dream of aspiring to were set with a single choice of pellet - makes you wonder why we think we need so much more spohisitication these days doesn't it?

The 1981 John Walter Airgun Book has a very good directory of all pellets then available, and only has one entry for what it calls the Meisterkugel (JW using the singular, not the plural). According to JW, they could be had in plastic boxes of 100, or tins of 100, 200, or 500.

[zooma]

The 1981 John Walter Airgun Book has a very good directory of all pellets then available, and only has one entry for what it calls the Meisterkugel (JW using the singular, not the plural). According to JW, they could be had in plastic boxes of 100, or tins of 100, 200, or 500.

I have seen the "sample tin" of 100 Meisterkugeln supplied in some of the fitted LP53 pistol cases that had a hole the right size for these "sample tins" that were made available by many of the German pellet manufacturers - but I have not see the tin of 200 Meisterkugeln yet........but I would like one!!

[RobinC]

My memory from the early 70's is the same as yours.

Meisterkugeln was only available in 4.50 and only in the one weight - the heavy weight rifle versions came along later.

This made life easy - only one choice and one weight - however, it was possible to buy them in tins of 500 or in flat plastic trays of 100 ( 2 x 50) in a "selected" pack.

This must have also meant that some of those world records that most of us with our posh PCP and multiple choice of pellet sizes and pellet weights can only dream of aspiring to were set with a single choice of pellet - makes you wonder why we think we need so much more spohisitication these days doesn't it?

Bob
The mens record set then with a FWB 300S was 393, only ladies do 40 shots now, but at the Intershoot International in Holland this year the top 20 ladies all shot over 390! 400's are not common, but they do happen. But, the modern test groups are very little different to the early match rifle groups, and then a ten was a ten, now at the top level they are scored in tenths 10.0, 10.1 .......10.8, and 10.9, the wifes rifle at test has produced a ten shot 10.9 non group with RWS R10 8.3gn 4.49's.

But, when she ran out of pellets some while back, she used the tin handed out from the British Championships, Meisterklugeln (in 8.3 and 4.50) and shot her personal best in a practice shoot which would have put her top qualifier in the ladies championship if it had been done there.

I think that any of the modern top quality match pellets are good enough to shoot those old world records, now, its a tad different, still got to hold it still though, and the biggest variable is still the shooter!

[Peter Pig]

Bob, this thread has had me in the loft looking in an old shooting bag to find the last yellow box of 100 Meisterkugeln bought sometime in the 80s, I think, still with 65 rather oxidised pellets in, and a sticker for £0.75.

[PhatMan]

Hello to All,

IIRC, the Meisterkugeln 0.177" back in the day were about 8.2 - 8.3 gr.

I may well be wrong, but there is something at the back of my mind that is suggesting this.

Being a heretic at the time, I preferred the Eley Match (H&Ns) to the Meisterkugeln

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[zooma]

Hello to All,

IIRC, the Meisterkugeln 0.177" back in the day were about 8.2 - 8.3 gr.

I may well be wrong, but there is something at the back of my mind that is suggesting this.

Being a heretic at the time, I preferred the Eley Match (H&Ns) to the Meisterkugeln

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

Hi Russ,

I also used the H&N (on occasion) in the 70's along with Eley Match (still have a couple of un-opened tins of these) but the Meistekugen was used the most often and almost everyone I met at matches and in clubs in the 70's also chose to use the yellow and black Meisterkugeln tins or (for special occasions) the yellow plastic select packs of 100 Meisterkugeln pellets .

Since then the H&N pellets appear to have changed from those we used in the 70's (and have a different lube?) and Eley Match are no longer available but the RWS Meisterkulgeln still look the same and performs as well as they always have and remain a firm favourite in our club and with classic airgun target shooters.

[PhatMan]

Bob,

Indeed - I remember matches I shot at the time, the H&N & Eley Match users were in a distinct minority to the 'Meisterkugeln crowd' - we had to stand and shoot in the naughty corner

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

[zooma]

Bob,

Indeed - I remember matches I shot at the time, the H&N & Eley Match users were in a distinct minority to the 'Meisterkugeln crowd' - we had to stand and shoot in the naughty corner

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

Haa...can you remember the Eley Competition where we all had to shoot with the Eley Match pellets?

Rumour has it that several competitors emptied their Eley tins and re-filled them with Meisterkugeln pellets.....but I am sure that was not true

I was happy to use the Eley Match at the live final in the Sophia Gardens in Cardiff as they shot well enough for me - strangely like the H&N - who (I am told) made them for Eley.

[RobinC]

At the last Eley sponsored .22 comp we did at Bisley, it was quite funny seeing people rooting through the waste bins looking for Eley boxes! We were at least subtle and did it at our club!

[zooma]

At the last Eley sponsored .22 comp we did at Bisley, it was quite funny seeing people rooting through the waste bins looking for Eley boxes! We were at least subtle and did it at our club!

It seems like nothing has changed much since the 70's as far as these "one brand" type events are concerned - although you can now enter the Eley Competition and use any brand of airgun pellet as Eley no longer market and sell their own brand of match pellet.

[PhatMan]

Bob,

In the 70s we used to pull the wool the other way round.

We used to scrounge up Tenex boxes, and full them up with Club or Match. When our Team appeared at competitions, everybody from our Club, including the Juniors seemed to be shooting Tenex - bit of psych against the opposition

It used to baffle them when I still shot like crap

Have fun & a good weekend

Best regards

Russ

[abellringer]

From memory I have to agree that we had three choices RWS; H&N; and Eley Match. I started in 1971 with an Or 65 then moved to a FWB 300s in '73 or 4, then like most of my club members added a second 300s [one for 6yds & one for 10m] saved sight tweaking or changing when shooting multi distance comps back to back. There were as far as I can recall only 3 flat head pellets available at that time RWS; H&N & Eley Match, I still have some of each of them and several containers are still unopened. There were no specific 'micro' sizes or weights back then and all of our guns shot equally well with these flat nose pellets and the famous Eley Wasp for Bell Tgt. I think the Eley Match were a little later than the German ones in making an appearance and many people thought that they were indeed H&N but this was always denied in the trade. It seems that guns of that era were less pellet fussy than modern PCP's, maybe spring target rifles are just more 'stable' in the way they react to ammunition, but I don't seem to recall people who moved to Walther LGR's had any more problems with ammo either. Also looking at old gun ''users manuals'' the test groups seem every bit as good as anything on sale today; my Tesro seems no better than my 300s, but it seems more pellet fussy.
abellringer