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Thread: BSA Scorpion or HW 45 ?

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  1. #1
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    BSA Scorpion or HW 45 ?

    For .22 air pistol high per performance choice what are the pros and cons from owners of these ?

    Baz
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  2. #2
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    Let me have a go.

    HW45: better overall build quality, easy to work on, plentiful new spares, 1911 grip frame fits the hand well and takes aftermarket grips, accurate, decent sights and trigger. If you like that kind of thing, easy to disfigure with optics, silencers, and even a wooden shoulder stock. Some have quirky dual power setting (can't myself see the point of that).

    Scorpion: OK build quality, bit tricky to take apart and put back together, only old spares though not hard to find, very accurate, weird 70s grip, decent trigger, decent sights until a bit breaks, usually a bit more powerful than the 45 - 5-5.5ft/lbs as against 4.5-5 for the HW (at least the recent 45s I have seen tested). Bit cheaper to buy than a used 45. Early Scorps have no scope grooves, if that matters to you.

    Sounds like the 45 is the better all-round bet. Except I have a Scorpion and am very fond of it, and have no great desire to get a 45.

    The Scorp is British, iconic, and makes me smile. It shoots really accurately on the rare occasion I get everything right. Whereas the 45 is trying a bit too hard to be a replica cartridge pistol, and not succeeding.

    Have you ruled out of consideration the Diana LP5M and LP8?

  3. #3
    Hsing-ee's Avatar
    Hsing-ee is offline may also be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal repleneration
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    They are both boinging springers. Get one of those Snow Peak CP1 pistols that run off CO2, much easier to shoot and can be powerful if you want.

    The Scorpion is a cut down rifle, while the HW is a Webley as it should have been, but with a decent trigger. Dealing with the back and forth spring-surge-bounce-crash of a springer is fine in a rifle, but pistols are so difficult to shoot it is not worth getting a recoiling one. Unless you just like shooting tin cans.

    Scorpion can be tuned to over 8 fpe, making it a Section 5 firearm like an UZI SUBMACHINEGUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go straight to jail for 5 years. That's the sting in the tail.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    pistols are so difficult to shoot it is not worth getting a recoiling one.
    Going to have disagree on this, Alistair.

    Pistols are so difficult to shoot it is definitely worth getting a recoiling one.

    Because it is so satisfying when you get everything right and it groups.

    Though only when I do my bit.

    Which isn't as often as I would like.

  5. #5
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Personally I would go for the Scorpion,I've owned both (still have the Scorpion) I had a HW45 the duel power version but I just never got on with it for some reason. On paper it's great but it's just abit soulless IMO and it's one of only a few pistols I've parted with. I've had 2 Scorpions(1 really was a wreck) and although it's not my first "go to" pistol it's a fun can mangler in .22 and I wouldn't part with it.

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    PS, Baz - you are never going to lose your money on a boxed minty Scorp. There aren't many about, and there's a collectors' market.

    Whereas a used HW45 is just a used HW45.

    Webley Hurricane isn't bad...

    Getting my coat.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all the details you listed. The reason I am asking, my mate has just given me a boxed minter Scorpion to check over. It has all the original bits in the box including metal target and oil bottle etc. No scratches on the plastic grip frame. I just gave him back his HW 45 which I was very impressed with, lovely trigger and accurate. Both are for sale and I fancy buying one of them due to the power output they both give. Used to have a bad opinion of the HW 45 as I never owned one and they seemed a bit big and bulky, but now see they are a good pistol. To Hsing-ee I have loads of other pistols including PCP'S and Bulk fill CO2'S, and SSP. Don't know what the UZI has to do with this, not looking for one of these especially as I dont like them. We had the micro UZI in South Africa which you could carry for self defence in semi auto setup.

    Baz
    Last edited by Benelli B76; 03-06-2016 at 07:42 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Let me have a go.

    HW45: better overall build quality, easy to work on, plentiful new spares, 1911 grip frame fits the hand well and takes aftermarket grips, accurate, decent sights and trigger. If you like that kind of thing, easy to disfigure with optics, silencers, and even a wooden shoulder stock. Some have quirky dual power setting (can't myself see the point of that).

    Scorpion: OK build quality, bit tricky to take apart and put back together, only old spares though not hard to find, very accurate, weird 70s grip, decent trigger, decent sights until a bit breaks, usually a bit more powerful than the 45 - 5-5.5ft/lbs as against 4.5-5 for the HW (at least the recent 45s I have seen tested). Bit cheaper to buy than a used 45. Early Scorps have no scope grooves, if that matters to you.

    Sounds like the 45 is the better all-round bet. Except I have a Scorpion and am very fond of it, and have no great desire to get a 45.

    The Scorp is British, iconic, and makes me smile. It shoots really accurately on the rare occasion I get everything right. Whereas the 45 is trying a bit too hard to be a replica cartridge pistol, and not succeeding.

    Have you ruled out of consideration the Diana LP5M and LP8?
    I think this covers it very nicely. I've never held a Scorpion but if size is no concern it seems to be the logical choice. I can't fault the german engineering of the HW45 (it is truly lovely and such a solid thing in the hand) but I have heard time and time and time again how folks struggle to get it to group at all. Almost all attest to it being an innately accurate gun and that the onus lies with the shooter but surely something is going wrong if a gun is this difficult to shoot well. Simply put, there's nothing fun about an inaccurate gun.

  9. #9
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    The HW45 isn't inaccurate, it just requires a light yet consistant hold. Then it will shoot just fine.
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  10. #10
    tinbum's Avatar
    tinbum is offline Killer Vampire Lesbians on scooters
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    Neither are nimble guns suited to fine target work, but the Scorpion is definately easier to shoot.
    Those with livers made of lillies fear the 45, and thats just as well. It makes those of use who can shoot them look even better.
    God rest ye jelly mental men

  11. #11
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    Never tried a Scorpion so can't comment on it. But I bought a Black Star HW45 in .22 a couple of months ago and get on just fine with it. Nice trigger pull, nice sights (Truglo) and shoots sweet. I do the 6 yard UBC comps and have no trouble at all with 5 shot groups under 10P coin size. Standing, unsupported.

    As for recoil, get a consistent grip and NOT too 'firm'. Stance and trigger control important too.
    FAS 604, Remington 1911, Colt SAA, HW45, BSA Mercury, Winchester underlever (Walther), SMK QB78

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blooregard View Post
    The HW45 isn't inaccurate, it just requires a light yet consistant hold. Then it will shoot just fine.
    I guess inaccurate is the wrong word. But few seem to be able to get much accuracy out of them and that can be very frustrating.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oling View Post
    I guess inaccurate is the wrong word. But few seem to be able to get much accuracy out of them and that can be very frustrating.
    The problem is the idea that rearward moving pistons ....like the Webley pistols is a better idea as it should be easier to control the recoil direct into the palm of the hand.....or so that is how it appeared on paper.
    Wrong.
    Its actually the secondary recoil that is at issue where control is concerned.
    Thus your typical HW70, Center, Original 5 etc are more accurate to shoot because they control the secondary rearward recoil better...but the webleys trying to jump forward after the initial rearward recoil has taken place.
    With the 45 we merely exaggerate the problem as a more powerful webley direction shooter.

    If triggers on these guns were as good as the 45 they would absolutely trounce it.
    There is another problem in so much that the 45 set up is great for generating flash over but we can counter this to some extent by not lubing.

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