BSA Scorpion or HW 45 ?

[oling]

Let me have a go.

HW45: better overall build quality, easy to work on, plentiful new spares, 1911 grip frame fits the hand well and takes aftermarket grips, accurate, decent sights and trigger. If you like that kind of thing, easy to disfigure with optics, silencers, and even a wooden shoulder stock. Some have quirky dual power setting (can't myself see the point of that).

Scorpion: OK build quality, bit tricky to take apart and put back together, only old spares though not hard to find, very accurate, weird 70s grip, decent trigger, decent sights until a bit breaks, usually a bit more powerful than the 45 - 5-5.5ft/lbs as against 4.5-5 for the HW (at least the recent 45s I have seen tested). Bit cheaper to buy than a used 45. Early Scorps have no scope grooves, if that matters to you.

Sounds like the 45 is the better all-round bet. Except I have a Scorpion and am very fond of it, and have no great desire to get a 45.

The Scorp is British, iconic, and makes me smile. It shoots really accurately on the rare occasion I get everything right. Whereas the 45 is trying a bit too hard to be a replica cartridge pistol, and not succeeding.

Have you ruled out of consideration the Diana LP5M and LP8?

I think this covers it very nicely. I've never held a Scorpion but if size is no concern it seems to be the logical choice. I can't fault the german engineering of the HW45 (it is truly lovely and such a solid thing in the hand) but I have heard time and time and time again how folks struggle to get it to group at all. Almost all attest to it being an innately accurate gun and that the onus lies with the shooter but surely something is going wrong if a gun is this difficult to shoot well. Simply put, there's nothing fun about an inaccurate gun.

[blooregard]

The HW45 isn't inaccurate, it just requires a light yet consistant hold. Then it will shoot just fine.

[tinbum]

Neither are nimble guns suited to fine target work, but the Scorpion is definately easier to shoot.
Those with livers made of lillies fear the 45, and thats just as well. It makes those of use who can shoot them look even better.

[JCB357]

Never tried a Scorpion so can't comment on it. But I bought a Black Star HW45 in .22 a couple of months ago and get on just fine with it. Nice trigger pull, nice sights (Truglo) and shoots sweet. I do the 6 yard UBC comps and have no trouble at all with 5 shot groups under 10P coin size. Standing, unsupported.

As for recoil, get a consistent grip and NOT too 'firm'. Stance and trigger control important too.

[oling]

The HW45 isn't inaccurate, it just requires a light yet consistant hold. Then it will shoot just fine.

I guess inaccurate is the wrong word. But few seem to be able to get much accuracy out of them and that can be very frustrating.

[clarky]

I guess inaccurate is the wrong word. But few seem to be able to get much accuracy out of them and that can be very frustrating.

The problem is the idea that rearward moving pistons ....like the Webley pistols is a better idea as it should be easier to control the recoil direct into the palm of the hand.....or so that is how it appeared on paper.
Wrong.
Its actually the secondary recoil that is at issue where control is concerned.
Thus your typical HW70, Center, Original 5 etc are more accurate to shoot because they control the secondary rearward recoil better...but the webleys trying to jump forward after the initial rearward recoil has taken place.
With the 45 we merely exaggerate the problem as a more powerful webley direction shooter.

If triggers on these guns were as good as the 45 they would absolutely trounce it.
There is another problem in so much that the 45 set up is great for generating flash over but we can counter this to some extent by not lubing.

[throdgrain]

We sure there's no rose tinted specs going on in this thread? I had a Scorpion back in the day in was very heavy, hard to cock, ugly and I couldn't hit anything with it.

Now I have a 45, its beautifully well made, amazingly accurate and powerful too. Well, the accuracy is up to you, but with some practice my newish one seems great. I used to have a Crossman pump up 1377, that was accurate too, but I never liked it. I do like my 2240 as well, but I hate the power tail off you get with co2

[Geezer]

We sure there's no rose tinted specs going on in this thread? I had a Scorpion back in the day in was very heavy, hard to cock, ugly and I couldn't hit anything with it.

That basically what I thought back in the day. Then I got one recently, and concluded it was not really too heavy, not too hard to cock, distinctively styled (er....), and very accurate.

[throdgrain]

That basically what I thought back in the day. Then I got one recently, and concluded it was not really too heavy, not too hard to cock, distinctively styled (er....), and very accurate.

Each to their own mate, reckon I'll stick with my HW45 though