Zoli 12g

[mickwin]

Hi Guys,
I have just acquired my first BP gun, a Zoli 12g muzzle loader and am having trouble finding any info on it. Have tried their web site, no joy. Just wondered if any of you have or had one ?

It is a single barrel percussion gun made around 1975, with a 33" barrel. I have looked at some pictures of them on Google, all have a long fore end with a ramrod held in it, mine however has a short fore end with no ramrod ? maybe a former owner cut it down for some reason ?

I will use Pyrodex to start with whilst I apply for a explosives licence then BP.

Any info on loads ( will be shooting No 5 shot and ball ) and the gun itself would be very helpful.

I have bought a Lyman black powder handbook and loading manual, and already reload .308 / .223 and 12g slugs.
All the best,
Mick.

[Jamie]

Quite a few zolis seem to be smoothbore copies of rifles -I've got a harpers ferry 1803 which were originally rifled but mine's a smoothy.

Never used pyrodex so can't help on loads, mine shoots better with wads and a bare ball rather than patches and most smoothbores seem to like a fairly stout charge. You really do just have to see what works for you!

[mickwin]

Cheers for your reply Jamie,
There are loads for shot and ball in the manual I have so at least I will have some idea of charges etc. all for 28" barrel, so I should be able to up the charge a bit as mine is 33" long and will run through what I want to do with a club member who shoots smoothbore guns.
Steve at Portsmouth gun center will measure the bore this Sat. and sort me out with the correct ball mould and all the kit I need so should be good to go in a couple of weeks. Will post how I got on and the loads I used that were best and worst after my hols.
All the best,
Mick.

[enfield2band]

The older muzzleloading shotguns used 1-1/4oz of shot and about 3 drams of powder. This is blackpowder NOT pyrodex.

This chart might help.

http://home.clara.net/brianp/weights.html

A dram is 27.34 grains.

[mickwin]

Thanks for the reply enfield2band.
I will be using BP in the near future so will check it out, also for the link bud.

[TA6319]

try for info

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/bp.htm

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/swiss/...percussion.htm

[series2a]

I use a 40 grain measure of pyrodex in a .580 smoothbore PH Enfield. This is plenty for round patch ball. Use a felt 10 mm soft wad over powder then patch and ball. Works fine for me

http://www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.u...io-co-shotgun/

[mickwin]

Thanks again guys, the shotgun in the link series2a is the one I found images for but mine is very different looking, but it feels and looks right for an original , I will try and post some images of it on the weekend.

[mickwin]

I had the bore measured on Sat. is .720 taken at three different spots down the barrel, would a .690 ball + .015 patch be ok or a .715 bare ball with a wad on top ( think I read somewhere not to use bare ball, or is that for rifled barrels ) or try both ?

Any help appreciated. Could only get treble 7 local so will be using that 15 = 20% less than BP load to start with sound about right to anyone ?
Couldn't get pictures on here sorry.
Cheers,
Mick.

[Jamie]

My bore is .580 and I'm shooting a .575 ball with 3 4mm felt wads and 100 grains of powder. Shoots well for me, I do run a bronze brush down the bore between shots tho, oh and use plenty lube!

Shot is 1oz over an equal volume of powder, 3 corregated card over powder wads and a card from a cereal box on top

[enfield2band]

I had the bore measured on Sat. is .720 taken at three different spots down the barrel, would a .690 ball + .015 patch be ok or a .715 bare ball with a wad on top ( think I read somewhere not to use bare ball, or is that for rifled barrels ) or try both ?

Any help appreciated. Could only get treble 7 local so will be using that 15 = 20% less than BP load to start with sound about right to anyone ?
Couldn't get pictures on here sorry.
Cheers,
Mick.

If you use a .690" ball and a .015" patch you will have a .015" gap between the ball/patch and the bore.The gasses will blow past it.

The ball and patch need to be a snug fit in the bore so there is an effective gas seal.
If you are using a .715" ball you should be able to load it with a .010" soft patch.Avoid hard material for patches they can make it hard to load,but make sure it is strong enough to be able to ram the ball down without tearing.
If the .010" patch works try a .012" patch and see if it loads easily. I once tried a .010" patch in smoothbore pistol and the accuracy was poor. With a .012" patch the accuracy was fairly good. With a .015" patch the accuracy fell off so I went back to using a .012" patch. You have to experiment to get the best out of your gun.
That is part of the fun of muzzleloading, even though it can test your patience at times!

A .715" bare ball will leave a .005" gap and the gas will blow past that as well. You will probably find there is absoluley no accuracy whatsoever using that method.The ball needs to be concentric with the bore so it,in theory, leaves the barrel on the same axis every time.

Atb

[mickwin]

thanks for the info guys,
I may not be understanding right enfield2band but as I see it a .690 + .015 + .015 ( patch covers circumference of ball so x 2 patch thicknesses ) = .720 ?
As to the bare ball I would put a nitro card over the powder then 11g 1/2" hard wad, ball and 12g lubed wad so you would have a gas seal behind the ball and in effect a lubed patch, but probably still have the problem of the ball not being concentric to the bore, I can see the sense in that.
Interesting about the patch thicknesses will definitely look into that !
I guess the thing to do is to try some loads and combinations of wads/patches and see how they perform. Will have to wait until the middle of July to get to the range again, will let you know how it goes.
Cheers,
Mick.

[Jamie]

Mine with a bare ball .005 undersize and three felt wads will go into 6" at 50m, but I cheat and have a rearsight. I did read a theory somewhere that with enough powder the ball will obturate to the bore. Not convinced, but they're certainly only accurate like that with a good dollop of powder underneath.

[enfield2band]

thanks for the info guys,
I may not be understanding right enfield2band but as I see it a .690 + .015 + .015 ( patch covers circumference of ball so x 2 patch thicknesses ) = .720 ?
Cheers,
Mick.

I think we are looking at this differently, but I see your point.

I shot a .36 pistol the ball was .354" and used a .006" patch, although .012" was better.

I have a .41" rifle that uses a .405" ball and .010" patch.

They both work.

I have a friend who shoots a Brown Bess and he uses denim for his patches at about .030" thick. (I don't know the size of the ball though).

[series2a]

I found a post on a US forum by a very successful Target shooter who used the following

10mm felt wad over 80 grains. NO patch ball lubed with KY around circumference with Felt patch over ball. Ball was push fit in barrel not rammed hard.

Worth a try on Smoothbore ONLY.