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Thread: Ignition problem with a Ruger Old Army

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    Question Ignition problem with a Ruger Old Army

    Hi, I have read many posts on here from fellow ROA enthusiasts, so I am hoping that someone will have a remedy for this problem. I changed the nipples on mine for the shotgun primer type. I found them to be very good, ignition wise, in that they always went off, first time (to be honest, I can't remember having problems with the original ones, but, you know what it's like, constantly chopping and changing for no reason whatsoever). Now, I thought I put the original nipples back, when I found 6 stainless steel ones in a little parts bag, but I have accumulated a load of stuff over the years. The problem is, I can't get any kind of reliable shots off. I am using the same CCI caps I always used,I have tried both the 10s & the 11s with the same Triple7 load. It seems like the first strike puts the cap on properly and it will usually fire on the second time. The RWS caps with 1075 on the pot will normally go, mostly first time, so it's not the end of the world, but I do have a couple of tins of CCIs. I haven't changed anything else on the pistol - it is exactly the same as it was when I bought it brand new over 10 years ago. I do love shooting it, but I have been using my Rogers & Spencer in competition as advancing target doesn't give you enough time to take double the amount of shots. I am not sure where to go to get replacement originals, Henry Kranks don't seem to list them and all the others are in the States. Anyone else sourced a set from anywhere? I remember reading a post from someone who used to get them in batches, but that was a while back.
    Also, while we are talking ROAs, what loads of Triple 7 do you use? Ball or Lee cast bullet? Anyone got a super accurate 25yd recipe they are prepared to share?

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    Turnup is offline The Doctor will see you now.....
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    I have had similar problems. A very slight chamfer on the nipple helps a bit. It also seems critical to seat the cap fully - I give them a squodge with some long nose pliers - but not too much.

    Chap called Tac Foley (Tac) on here sourced a set of SS replacement nipples (Bushnell I believe but they are identical to the originals) for me and he gets then in batches whenever he goes over stateside.

    777? never use it - BP all the way for me.
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    Mine's still on the original nipples (Although I do have a spare set from Tac) and I have endless problems with CCI primers. Unfortunately anything else seems hard to find. When I used Remington, it never missed a shot. You're right that it is to do with them not seating properly but even if I push them on, I usually get one or two misfires out of 6. Maybe I should try chamfering the nipples but, as I say, other primers are fine.

    I use round ball - .457
    I use 777 exclusively and for me, target shooting at 20 - 25 yds, I find 15 - 18 grains fine. I've tried heavier loads and while the bang and flash may be impressive, I've not seen an increase in accuracy! I've tried inert filler and commercial wads but now use wads punched out of a Pilates mat! i.e. A fairly dense foam rubber. Not much to choose between any of them as far as I can see.

    Do bear in mind that every single ROA shooter in the world will have completely different views on what is "best"

    Steve

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    Check for wear on the hammer assembly, it might be catching the edge of the cap and not striking properly, or the hammer might be worn.

    I had a percussion rifle that started to misfire now and again. I blamed it on the caps being damp.
    When I took a close look at the hammer there was a small amount of play on the shaft which allowed the hammer to move backwards when it struck and the inside edge of the hammer caught the edge of the cap.
    I ground a few thou. off the inside of the hammer and it worked fine after that.

    I've not seen Tac on her for a while. I hope he has not gone to the big gun club in the sky!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by davefitz66 View Post
    Also, while we are talking ROAs, what loads of Triple 7 do you use? Ball or Lee cast bullet? Anyone got a super accurate 25yd recipe they are prepared to share?
    Only ever use Hodgdons published data when using 777. Triple seven is not a black powder substitute, it is a nitro powder that can be used in muzzle loading guns. Deviating from Hodgdons published loads can alter the burning characteristics of the load and produce dangerous pressure spikes. The consequences can be catastrophic. The published data gives only two loads for the ROA. They are 30 and 35 grains by volume of 777, with a lubed Ox-yoke wad and a .457 pure lead ball. That is not between 30 and 35, but specifically 30 OR 35 grains by volume.

    Your chosen load could be dangerous.

    If you want to use a black powder substitute, then get Pyrodex.

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    Turnup is offline The Doctor will see you now.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by simgre View Post
    Only ever use Hodgdons published data when using 777. Triple seven is not a black powder substitute, it is a nitro powder that can be used in muzzle loading guns. Deviating from Hodgdons published loads can alter the burning characteristics of the load and produce dangerous pressure spikes. The consequences can be catastrophic. The published data gives only two loads for the ROA. They are 30 and 35 grains by volume of 777, with a lubed Ox-yoke wad and a .457 pure lead ball. That is not between 30 and 35, but specifically 30 OR 35 grains by volume.

    Your chosen load could be dangerous.

    If you want to use a black powder substitute, then get Pyrodex.
    Where did you get this information from?

    Hodgons own website https://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven.html states "Triple SevenŽ is a revolutionary black powder substitute that cleans up with water alone."

    So a) the manufacturer claims it is a BP substitute
    and b) Since when can Nitro powder be cleaned with water alone?


    Their website also offers 50 grain pellets for use in 44/45 revolver......
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Where did you get this information from?

    Hodgons own website https://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven.html states "Triple SevenŽ is a revolutionary black powder substitute that cleans up with water alone."

    So a) the manufacturer claims it is a BP substitute
    and b) Since when can Nitro powder be cleaned with water alone?


    Their website also offers 50 grain pellets for use in 44/45 revolver......


    Around 10 years ago I had an email exchange with one of the chemists who worked for Hodgdon in the development of 777, when I asked questions about inert fillers, varying of loads, duplex and the like. It is not a substitute in the way that Pyrodex is, which can be used exactly like BP. 777 is a "substitute" in very specific conditions and that is when utilised with the exact load data as produced. It was originally designed to give more velocity from in-line, 209 ignition muzzle loaders. It develops 15 to 20% energy for the same volume. The warnings listed around 777 are many.

    .45 cal, 50 grain pellets are for use in in-line M/L rifles. The pistol pellets were 30 grain. They .45/30s were dropped sometime ago.

    Never cleaned nitro with water? You've never shot milsurp with corrosive primers and cordite sticks. Boiling water was the only way to clean.

    Fact is, dick around with 777 loads, deviating away from the published recipes, then disaster may very well come calling. It seems that people have migrated to 777 without understanding what the propellant is really for and have find som based purely on the aspect that cold running water is all that's needed to clean up. It's not suitable in cap and ball revolvers when you're looking to experiment.

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    Remington caps always better for me, cci always let me down

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    Turnup is offline The Doctor will see you now.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by simgre View Post
    Around 10 years ago I had an email exchange with one of the chemists who worked for Hodgdon in the development of 777, when I asked questions about inert fillers, varying of loads, duplex and the like. It is not a substitute in the way that Pyrodex is, which can be used exactly like BP. 777 is a "substitute" in very specific conditions and that is when utilised with the exact load data as produced. It was originally designed to give more velocity from in-line, 209 ignition muzzle loaders. It develops 15 to 20% energy for the same volume. The warnings listed around 777 are many.

    .45 cal, 50 grain pellets are for use in in-line M/L rifles. The pistol pellets were 30 grain. They .45/30s were dropped sometime ago.

    Never cleaned nitro with water? You've never shot milsurp with corrosive primers and cordite sticks. Boiling water was the only way to clean.

    Fact is, dick around with 777 loads, deviating away from the published recipes, then disaster may very well come calling. It seems that people have migrated to 777 without understanding what the propellant is really for and have find som based purely on the aspect that cold running water is all that's needed to clean up. It's not suitable in cap and ball revolvers when you're looking to experiment.
    Special privileged information from the insider at Hodgons which they do not publish - wonder why?

    Duplex loads - you're on your own there - I value my limbs too much

    So Hodgons published information is not correct, you know better.

    Cite some properly documented disasters with 777 - not "bloke down the pub said...".

    Corrosive primers produce water soluble by products, Nitrocellulose does not. I use modern primers and nc powders and have never needed to use water to clean.

    Hopgdons provide loading information for cap and ball firearms, and lots of people use it as such, including revolvers, but you claim it is not suitable? You know something that they do not? Wow, you must be a genius!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenC View Post
    Remington caps always better for me, cci always let me down
    Come to think of it I too find that CCI caps are less reliable in the ROA than others. Wonder why that would be.......
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
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    .

    I started a new tin of CCI primers just as I changed the nipples on my ROA.
    Thats when I started getting missfires.
    I thought it must be the primers but it seems a little fettling with the nipples may be in order.
    Think I'll put the old nipples back in and try a few out just to confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weebeestie View Post
    I started a new tin of CCI primers just as I changed the nipples on my ROA.
    Thats when I started getting missfires.
    I thought it must be the primers but it seems a little fettling with the nipples may be in order.
    Think I'll put the old nipples back in and try a few out just to confirm.
    That is an interesting comment.

    I wonder if the new ones are slightly shorter?

    It is not something you would normally think of when you get misfires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Special privileged information from the insider at Hodgons which they do not publish - wonder why?

    Duplex loads - you're on your own there - I value my limbs too much

    So Hodgons published information is not correct, you know better.

    Cite some properly documented disasters with 777 - not "bloke down the pub said...".

    Corrosive primers produce water soluble by products, Nitrocellulose does not. I use modern primers and nc powders and have never needed to use water to clean.

    Hopgdons provide loading information for cap and ball firearms, and lots of people use it as such, including revolvers, but you claim it is not suitable? You know something that they do not? Wow, you must be a genius!

    You're being a dick.

    The crux of all of my posts has simply been, use only the published data from Hodgdons when using 777, simple as that. There is more than enough information out there which bears out exactly what I have said, which is what I have learned in correspondence when I first ventured into muzzle loading. You can take what you want from the anecdotal offered, but there's never been a "bloke down the pub".

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    Another one for Remington caps. Only one i use with all my b/p pistols. I tend to buy large (ish) amounts when they are available
    then not have to bother for a couple of years. Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Another one for Remington caps. Only one i use with all my b/p pistols. I tend to buy large (ish) amounts when they are available
    then not have to bother for a couple of years. Tim
    Thumbs up 👍

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