Ignition problem with a Ruger Old Army

[simgre]

Where did you get this information from?

Hodgons own website https://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven.html states "Triple Seven® is a revolutionary black powder substitute that cleans up with water alone."

So a) the manufacturer claims it is a BP substitute
and b) Since when can Nitro powder be cleaned with water alone?


Their website also offers 50 grain pellets for use in 44/45 revolver......

Around 10 years ago I had an email exchange with one of the chemists who worked for Hodgdon in the development of 777, when I asked questions about inert fillers, varying of loads, duplex and the like. It is not a substitute in the way that Pyrodex is, which can be used exactly like BP. 777 is a "substitute" in very specific conditions and that is when utilised with the exact load data as produced. It was originally designed to give more velocity from in-line, 209 ignition muzzle loaders. It develops 15 to 20% energy for the same volume. The warnings listed around 777 are many.

.45 cal, 50 grain pellets are for use in in-line M/L rifles. The pistol pellets were 30 grain. They .45/30s were dropped sometime ago.

Never cleaned nitro with water? You've never shot milsurp with corrosive primers and cordite sticks. Boiling water was the only way to clean.

Fact is, dick around with 777 loads, deviating away from the published recipes, then disaster may very well come calling. It seems that people have migrated to 777 without understanding what the propellant is really for and have find som based purely on the aspect that cold running water is all that's needed to clean up. It's not suitable in cap and ball revolvers when you're looking to experiment.

[WarrenC]

Remington caps always better for me, cci always let me down

[Turnup]

Remington caps always better for me, cci always let me down

Come to think of it I too find that CCI caps are less reliable in the ROA than others. Wonder why that would be.......

[weebeestie]

I started a new tin of CCI primers just as I changed the nipples on my ROA.
Thats when I started getting missfires.
I thought it must be the primers but it seems a little fettling with the nipples may be in order.
Think I'll put the old nipples back in and try a few out just to confirm.

[enfield2band]

I started a new tin of CCI primers just as I changed the nipples on my ROA.
Thats when I started getting missfires.
I thought it must be the primers but it seems a little fettling with the nipples may be in order.
Think I'll put the old nipples back in and try a few out just to confirm.

That is an interesting comment.

I wonder if the new ones are slightly shorter?

It is not something you would normally think of when you get misfires.

[Turnup]

Around 10 years ago I had an email exchange with one of the chemists who worked for Hodgdon in the development of 777, when I asked questions about inert fillers, varying of loads, duplex and the like. It is not a substitute in the way that Pyrodex is, which can be used exactly like BP. 777 is a "substitute" in very specific conditions and that is when utilised with the exact load data as produced. It was originally designed to give more velocity from in-line, 209 ignition muzzle loaders. It develops 15 to 20% energy for the same volume. The warnings listed around 777 are many.

.45 cal, 50 grain pellets are for use in in-line M/L rifles. The pistol pellets were 30 grain. They .45/30s were dropped sometime ago.

Never cleaned nitro with water? You've never shot milsurp with corrosive primers and cordite sticks. Boiling water was the only way to clean.

Fact is, dick around with 777 loads, deviating away from the published recipes, then disaster may very well come calling. It seems that people have migrated to 777 without understanding what the propellant is really for and have find som based purely on the aspect that cold running water is all that's needed to clean up. It's not suitable in cap and ball revolvers when you're looking to experiment.

Special privileged information from the insider at Hodgons which they do not publish - wonder why?

Duplex loads - you're on your own there - I value my limbs too much

So Hodgons published information is not correct, you know better.

Cite some properly documented disasters with 777 - not "bloke down the pub said...".

Corrosive primers produce water soluble by products, Nitrocellulose does not. I use modern primers and nc powders and have never needed to use water to clean.

Hopgdons provide loading information for cap and ball firearms, and lots of people use it as such, including revolvers, but you claim it is not suitable? You know something that they do not? Wow, you must be a genius!

[simgre]

Special privileged information from the insider at Hodgons which they do not publish - wonder why?

Duplex loads - you're on your own there - I value my limbs too much

So Hodgons published information is not correct, you know better.

Cite some properly documented disasters with 777 - not "bloke down the pub said...".

Corrosive primers produce water soluble by products, Nitrocellulose does not. I use modern primers and nc powders and have never needed to use water to clean.

Hopgdons provide loading information for cap and ball firearms, and lots of people use it as such, including revolvers, but you claim it is not suitable? You know something that they do not? Wow, you must be a genius!

You're being a dick.

The crux of all of my posts has simply been, use only the published data from Hodgdons when using 777, simple as that. There is more than enough information out there which bears out exactly what I have said, which is what I have learned in correspondence when I first ventured into muzzle loading. You can take what you want from the anecdotal offered, but there's never been a "bloke down the pub".

[tim56]

Another one for Remington caps. Only one i use with all my b/p pistols. I tend to buy large (ish) amounts when they are available
then not have to bother for a couple of years. Tim

[WarrenC]

Another one for Remington caps. Only one i use with all my b/p pistols. I tend to buy large (ish) amounts when they are available
then not have to bother for a couple of years. Tim

Thumbs up 👍

[davefitz66]

Who knew that a request for information would take that left hand turn! Anyway, to get back to my original question, when people say "fettling the nipples" what do they exactly mean? I am fairly certain that the hammer is still working as it should and that the nipples are the correct Ruger originals (they have the original nut type configuration, rather than the Colt type key. As an aside, does anyone else consider the Ruger nipple key that came with the Old Army the worst thing they make? I know I do. Talk about rounding them off!) So I really need to know what to do with the nipples to get this working again. I have bought a yoga mat and will be stamping out my own wads soon as per Steve's suggestion. Do you use any type of lube on those wads Steve? I am going to be doing some intensive testing bullet vs ball as soon as I sort the reliability issue out.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
Dave

[sclg]

Who knew that a request for information would take that left hand turn! Anyway, to get back to my original question, when people say "fettling the nipples" what do they exactly mean? I am fairly certain that the hammer is still working as it should and that the nipples are the correct Ruger originals (they have the original nut type configuration, rather than the Colt type key. As an aside, does anyone else consider the Ruger nipple key that came with the Old Army the worst thing they make? I know I do. Talk about rounding them off!) So I really need to know what to do with the nipples to get this working again. I have bought a yoga mat and will be stamping out my own wads soon as per Steve's suggestion. Do you use any type of lube on those wads Steve? I am going to be doing some intensive testing bullet vs ball as soon as I sort the reliability issue out.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
Dave

Agree about the nipple key! I bought one of these...
http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?...roducts_id=179
... which has worked well for me on ROA, Le Page, Jim Greathead underhammer, Colt revolver, etc, etc.
No, I don't use lube on the wads.
You will find much useful advice about the ROA on the web. A lot of it is written be highly experienced shooters but some is written by idiots so always use your own common sense and look for a consensus of opinion. ... although I'll admit that is sometimes hard to find!
One thing I do recall from my reading a few years ago was a feeling that bullets were only better than ball at fairly high loads and that most who used them were hunting things other than paper targets! Never tried bullets myself.
Steve

[enfield2band]

Who knew that a request for information would take that left hand turn! Anyway, to get back to my original question, when people say "fettling the nipples" what do they exactly mean? I am fairly certain that the hammer is still working as it should and that the nipples are the correct Ruger originals (they have the original nut type configuration, rather than the Colt type key. As an aside, does anyone else consider the Ruger nipple key that came with the Old Army the worst thing they make? I know I do. Talk about rounding them off!) So I really need to know what to do with the nipples to get this working again. I have bought a yoga mat and will be stamping out my own wads soon as per Steve's suggestion. Do you use any type of lube on those wads Steve? I am going to be doing some intensive testing bullet vs ball as soon as I sort the reliability issue out.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
Dave

Are you using a "yoga mat" to cut out your wads?

Why not just melt an inch of lead in a pan, tip it out when it has cooled, and use that. As it gets well used just melt it again.

When someone says fettle the nipples they generally mean make sure there are no burrs on them. Hone off any excessive wear if it is not detrimental to the ignition, make sure the threads are clean and make sure the flash hole is clear.

[tacfoley]

Who knew that a request for information would take that left hand turn! Anyway, to get back to my original question, when people say "fettling the nipples" what do they exactly mean? I am fairly certain that the hammer is still working as it should and that the nipples are the correct Ruger originals (they have the original nut type configuration, rather than the Colt type key. As an aside, does anyone else consider the Ruger nipple key that came with the Old Army the worst thing they make? I know I do. Talk about rounding them off!) So I really need to know what to do with the nipples to get this working again. I have bought a yoga mat and will be stamping out my own wads soon as per Steve's suggestion. Do you use any type of lube on those wads Steve? I am going to be doing some intensive testing bullet vs ball as soon as I sort the reliability issue out.
I look forward to hearing back from you soon.
Dave

Yup. Don't be busting that hammer - there are positively no more.

tac

[panhard]

Reading thread and have had same problem with ROA. Did changing back to original nipples cure problem? Any info appreciated on how problem solved. Realise post was some months ago. Used this ROA several times but not successfully as very poor firing reliability. Last time nipples were removed and all checked / cleaned out, and it takes a while to get enthusiastic about trying it again.