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Thread: New boy needs help

  1. #1
    muzzie is offline Wants something a little...special
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    Cool New boy needs help

    Hi
    I've just bought a target pistol...but I know very little about the sport. So, what height should I place my target at, is there a rule?
    Should I zero the pistol at 10m or can I use less.
    Now for the tricky bit ..how do I zero..with my rifle, cross hairs on bull till I hit the bull using the turrets,
    Where do I start on the pistol, I've never used open sights before. Do the front and rear line up? And does that have to line up with the target. Or do I aim higher or lower.
    I take hat off to you guys, you make it look so easy, I thought 10m, piece of piss..not quite.
    Before you bang on about joining a club..which hopefully I will, I want to be able to at least get some good grouping under my belt first.
    Any advice would be grateful, even at the expense of some jokes.

    Cheers from the dark side
    This is the crisis I knew had to come, Distroying the balance Id kept.
    Turning around to the next set of lives, Wondering what will come next .

  2. #2
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    Hello Muzzie,

    I found this to be very useful: The Hitch Hiker's Guide to Shooting Glory.

    Good luck,

    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzie View Post
    Hi
    I've just bought a target pistol...but I know very little about the sport. So, what height should I place my target at, is there a rule?
    Should I zero the pistol at 10m or can I use less.
    Now for the tricky bit ..how do I zero..with my rifle, cross hairs on bull till I hit the bull using the turrets,
    Where do I start on the pistol, I've never used open sights before. Do the front and rear line up? And does that have to line up with the target. Or do I aim higher or lower.
    I take hat off to you guys, you make it look so easy, I thought 10m, piece of piss..not quite.
    Before you bang on about joining a club..which hopefully I will, I want to be able to at least get some good grouping under my belt first.
    Any advice would be grateful, even at the expense of some jokes.

    Cheers from the dark side
    For some formal competitions the height of the target is specified, but generally it is about shoulder height, so that the line of sight is flat.

    RE zero: Note that because the trajectory of the pellet is curved (gravity) then for most useful distances there are TWO zeroes. One as the pellet passes upwards through the line of sight, and one further away as the pellet curves back downwards through the line of sight.

    You should zero your pistol at the distance you want to shoot it - same goes for rifle if shooting targets.

    Rifle with telescopic sight: You need to understand the two or three adjustment types on your 'scope.

    First off the eye bell adjustment. This is there only to compensate for your vision. Point the scope at a featureless surface (an overcast sky is good). Adjust the eye bell until the cross hairs are in sharp focus. If you are young you might find that you can accommodate quite a wide range of settings as your eyes will automatically adjust. It is therefore better to only look through the scope for a very short time, look away at a distant object and glance back again. Adjust until it is in focus when you glance back and your eyes will then be most relaxed. Once set this adjustment will only need to be changed if your eyesight changes.

    Second off the Objective lens adjustment. Not all scopes have this. It is an adjustable ring at the front of the scope (or on some scopes there is a wheel adjustment on the side of the scope). Some scopes have no adjustment. If you have an adjuster then this is used to put the target in perfect focus, so will need to be reset each time the distance to the target changes.

    With these set then now you can twiddle the turrets to get the point of impact to agree with the cross hairs. Now the trouble starts......breathing, stance, how you hold the rifle, how much pressure you hold it with, position of trigger finger on trigger, trigger control itself.......practice and experiment.


    Pistol sights: From your description I presume that you have a post at the front and a blade with a notch in it at the back. The post should be level with the top of the blade, and centralised in the notch. If shooting targets then the point of aim (the tip of the correctly aligned front sight) should be just below the bottom of the black disc on the target. This seems counter intuitive, but if you point the tip of the front sight at the bull it is very hard to see it well (black on black) and very hard to judge the exact centre. So put the point of aim just below the bottom of the black - it stands out very clearly and you can judge that point very accurately - leave a distinct white gap. The tip of the front sight should be in clear focus, the notch in the rear sight will be a little fuzzy, and the black disc of the target will also be fuzzy - it is impossible to get all three into focus at the same time. This point of aim means that the pistol is shooting distinctly uphill, so even a small change in range to the target will have a large effect on where the pellet strikes. As with the rifle, the practice begins. Trigger control is much more critical with a pistol. You should place your finger such that the trigger is between the finger tip and the first joint, with that part of the finger as low on the trigger as is comfortable, exactly square across the trigger (so you don't push it to one side or the other) with the rest of the trigger finger not touching any part of the gun. You should experiment with the placement of your hand to achieve this as closely as possible - experienced shooters will also modify the shape of the hand grip to accommodate their anatomy. While concentrating on maintaining the correct sight picture, slowly slowly increase the pressure on the trigger until the gun fires. It should come as a surprise - resist the temptation to fire the gun at some specific point. The foresight will wobble around while you are aiming - this is normal - ignore it - you are aiming at a zone and not at a point. With practice the wobble will become smaller but will always be there. Never adjust your point of aim to compensate for the pellet strike on the target. If you have a group in the wrong place, congratulations! It is a simple matter to adjust the sights to place the group where you want it. No amount of sight adjustment will make a large group smaller.

    I would strongly advise that you join a club immediately. Practicing at home will almost certainly foster bad habits and incorrect technique which can be hard to correct later. There are many things to get right, where you place your feet, how you stand, how you hold your head, how you hold the gun, breathing, sight picture, trigger control and follow through. Coaching/instruction will start you off with the basics broadly correct and save you a lot of time and frustration. Even experienced shooters sometimes develop a bad habit which they do not realise they are doing - a coach can spot this and correct it.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkormat View Post
    Hello Muzzie,

    I found this to be very useful: The Hitch Hiker's Guide to Shooting Glory.

    Good luck,

    Matt
    Very very useful!
    BSA Mercury .22, Steyr SSG69, Enfield No4 Mk1*, Schmeisser AR15 Ultramatch, 1938 Mauser KKW K98 Trainer.

  6. #6
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    Join a club, they won't judge how good or bad you are. You'll learn a lot and also hopefully stop you picking up any bad habits.

  7. #7
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    So, what height should I place my target at, is there a rule?

    • For 10M distance : 1.4 Metres to the centre of the target


    Should I zero the pistol at 10m or can I use less.

    • If you are shooting at 10M zero at 10 M, if less, zero at that distance. If you swap to 10M, then adjust sights accourdingly


    Now for the tricky bit ..how do I zero..with my rifle, cross hairs on bull till I hit the bull using the turrets,

    • Front and rear sights should all be aligned, with an equal gap either side of the foresight.


    Where do I start on the pistol, I've never used open sights before. Do the front and rear line up? And does that have to line up with the target. Or do I aim higher or lower.

    • Generally two ways of target alignment :
      • Sub 6 where you aim somewhere below the black - easier to pick your sights up
      • Centre hold - where you aim dead centre on target - harder to pick your sights up


    Any advice would be grateful, even at the expense of some jokes.

    • Join a club, or get some coaching (or both), its easier start of with no bad habits than fix bad habits after you have been shooting a longer time.
    • Don't get expect too much too soon, the groups will come if you stick at it.
    • Have fun, it gets very rewarding once you start to see groups forming.


    There's some great advice here, from the pdfs: http://aiming4gold.co.uk/Competitive_Pistol.php and http://www.targetshooting.ca (Document Links)
    Last edited by SteveR; 22-08-2016 at 04:12 PM.

  8. #8
    muzzie is offline Wants something a little...special
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    Cool

    Thanks for all your comments, there seems to be a lot more to pistol shooting than I thought.
    Seems that the underlining trend is to join a club. I know that there is one in Kings Lynn, so thats okay as I work in Lynn.
    One other question, what pellets should I use? I know that each rifle / pistol prefers a different type of pellet, but what weight, shape should I be looking at. My HW100 loves AA field 8.4 , do pistols prefer heavier or lighter pellets, or is it a case of suck it and see.
    Sorry, also, co2 capsules, what the cheapest way to buy them, I've seen them on the bay 50 for around £20 ...j Ramsbotham seem the cheapest...are they all the same?

    Thanks again
    This is the crisis I knew had to come, Distroying the balance Id kept.
    Turning around to the next set of lives, Wondering what will come next .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzie View Post
    Thanks for all your comments, there seems to be a lot more to pistol shooting than I thought.
    Seems that the underlining trend is to join a club. I know that there is one in Kings Lynn, so thats okay as I work in Lynn.
    One other question, what pellets should I use? I know that each rifle / pistol prefers a different type of pellet, but what weight, shape should I be looking at. My HW100 loves AA field 8.4 , do pistols prefer heavier or lighter pellets, or is it a case of suck it and see.
    Sorry, also, co2 capsules, what the cheapest way to buy them, I've seen them on the bay 50 for around £20 ...j Ramsbotham seem the cheapest...are they all the same?

    Thanks again
    JSR are probably the cheapest- they sometimes are cheaper through there shop on the bay.
    Use wadcutter pellets (flat head). These cut a nice clean hole in the target and are specified for comp shooting. You can get them from £3.70 upto £11 per tin. I would advise rws geco's to start with (about £3.70).

    J
    Steyr LP10, AA S200 .177,
    Remmy Express .177, Sig Sauer P226- .177
    Crosman Rabbitstopper- .22, Chinese XS36-1- .22

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzie View Post
    co2 capsules, what the cheapest way to buy them, I've seen them on the bay 50 for around £20 ...j Ramsbotham seem the cheapest...are they all the same?

    Thanks again
    To be honest, ive not had a bad batch with any make and they are pretty much the same, but recently been using Crossman 12g and these are doing okay. I get 50 consistent shots from each, then change them even if there is a little gas left, this just ensures that if I go beyond the 50th shot, I wont get a pellet stuck in the barrel.

    Go by price, the more you can get for your money the better, but they are all around the 50p each mark anyway I find.
    BSA Mercury .22, Steyr SSG69, Enfield No4 Mk1*, Schmeisser AR15 Ultramatch, 1938 Mauser KKW K98 Trainer.

  11. #11
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    I have just ordered 20 capsules from Amazon for £7.20, they are only for plinking, so I am not worried about quality to the same extent.

    Cheapest I have ever seen though...

    Cheers,

    Mark.
    Too many guns, or not enough time?

  12. #12
    muzzie is offline Wants something a little...special
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modski66 View Post
    I have just ordered 20 capsules from Amazon for £7.20, they are only for plinking, so I am not worried about quality to the same extent.

    Cheapest I have ever seen though...

    Cheers,

    Mark.
    Well don't be shy...pray tell
    This is the crisis I knew had to come, Distroying the balance Id kept.
    Turning around to the next set of lives, Wondering what will come next .

  13. #13
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    Errrrrr?

    What else can I say?
    Too many guns, or not enough time?

  14. #14
    muzzie is offline Wants something a little...special
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    Generally two ways of target alignment :
    Sub 6 where you aim somewhere below the black - easier to pick your sights up
    Centre hold - where you aim dead centre on target - harder to pick your sights up

    I've tried aiming below the black and I'm getting some sort of grouping, but if I use a knock down target do I try for for the centre hold?? If so what do I aim at ...the target..and line up my sights accordingly .

    Sorry for all the questions, but I have a word with St Michaels in Lynn and will endeavour to pay them a visit.
    This is the crisis I knew had to come, Distroying the balance Id kept.
    Turning around to the next set of lives, Wondering what will come next .

  15. #15
    Turnup's Avatar
    Turnup is offline Dialling code‎: ‎01344
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzie View Post
    Generally two ways of target alignment :
    Sub 6 where you aim somewhere below the black - easier to pick your sights up
    Centre hold - where you aim dead centre on target - harder to pick your sights up

    I've tried aiming below the black and I'm getting some sort of grouping, but if I use a knock down target do I try for for the centre hold?? If so what do I aim at ...the target..and line up my sights accordingly .

    Sorry for all the questions, but I have a word with St Michaels in Lynn and will endeavour to pay them a visit.
    Sub 6 is definitely the way to go when shooting conventional targets (black central zone). My experience with knock downs is that it is often difficult to see a good sub 6 aiming point. If the knock down has a nice bright surface against which your sights stand out, then set for point of aim.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
    TANSTAAFL

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