12 foot pound Law Who's fault is it???

[Northj]

rogb, I do get that impression, and you are right, why should you buy an expensive gortex jacket that does exactly what you need it to and another one to satisfy the shortsighted judgemental public! I am with you my friend, I am just pointing out the struggles shooting and weapons ownership has to deal with regarding the general public, who unfortunately want to ban anything they are not interested in, hence we still can all drive our cars that, on the whole harm more people than privately owned guns of any sort, have ever done!

[Rich]

The change in the law came in 2014 and clarified that if you have been given a suspended sentence then the day of your release is notionally two days after the sentence was handed down. This is to give the convicted person time to sell or dispose of the firearm and stop them being immediately arrested for illegal possession. It also makes it clear from that date that suspended sentences count, whereas often it was thought that you had to serve the time in custody for S21 to apply.

[rogb]

rogb, I do get that impression, and you are right, why should you buy an expensive gortex jacket that does exactly what you need it to and another one to satisfy the shortsighted judgemental public! I am with you my friend, I am just pointing out the struggles shooting and weapons ownership has to deal with regarding the general public, who unfortunately want to ban anything they are not interested in, hence we still can all drive our cars that, on the whole harm more people than privately owned guns of any sort, have ever done!

Oh OK, you are playing a kind of devil's advocaat, fair enough.
With regards to the car analogy, you would agree that they are expensive to own, insure, get qualified to drive and to maintain? Yet they kill many, so that must mean they have apoor image to the public and lots are driven by complete tw@ts, especially Audis. Oh hang on,

[Northj]

Indeed rogb, my point was they like shiny show off things and like the freedom it gives so they look past the danger because that big metal front end that can make some damaging contact with objects looks good to!
I, as probably all on here look at a rifle and see the beauty in the manufacture and feel and get excited about the specs the same as people do with cars, but they are accepted and guns not so much!
Sad but true!

[rogb]

Indeed rogb, my point was they like shiny show off things and like the freedom it gives so they look past the danger because that big metal front end that can make some damaging contact with objects looks good to!
I, as probably all on here look at a rifle and see the beauty in the manufacture and feel and get excited about the specs the same as people do with cars, but they are accepted and guns not so much!
Sad but true!

Maybe the public will see the beauty in the lovely Perazzi shotguns they saw during the Lympics and that will win them over. They are beautiful but terribly deadly (at closeish range), bit like cars.
That might take the heat off me and my fellow psychos and we will be free to roll in the mud with our sub 12 ft.lbs pellet guns, harming no one except a tin chicken

[capt hindsight]

Not so. If you have been given a custodial sentence of three months or more you are not allowed to possess any firearm including a sub 12fpe air rifle for five years from release; if the sentence was for three years or more it's a lifetime ban. There are new rules just out, clarifying the situation with suspended sentences and early release.

Thanks for the info, this seems sensible and weakens any case for licensing of sub 12 ft/lbs. I've always sat on the fence a bit with airgun licensing but your info has made me realise that its not necessary, the law already covers the area that I was concerned about.

[lensman57]

Thanks for the info, this seems sensible and weakens any case for licensing of sub 12 ft/lbs. I've always sat on the fence a bit with airgun licensing but your info has made me realise that its not necessary, the law already covers the area that I was concerned about.

The ideas about registration not licencing, the sub 12 rifles are only meant to weed out the undesirables who will eventually bring about a licencing scheme along the same lines of Scotland which were designed to get rid of the guns.
Think of it as an unpleasant medicine that must be taken if the body is to get well in the near future.
I have my reservations about it but it is preferable to a licencing scheme along the Scottish lines that will bring about the death of air rifle ownership. Lets hope that it will not become necessary.

A.G

[Clanchief]

I think at the time the regulations were thought of we had good engineering back in the day with spring guns, ok they were around 9 to 10 ftlbs, which for most of us Spring fans is more than suitable, we all managed with this level of power and never thought of anything else,,,,did we.

We eventually came to the 1980's and all of a sudden we went FAC mad, how many Fac owners were around before 1980 ?

In reality all we need for most of our purposes are 10 - 11.5 ftlbs, and not any more. If we never had Chrono's then we would never know any better would we ?

Now we have even better knowledge and better engineering with some modern PCP's it shows that the law once made was what was available at the time and not what may be a future invention.

I do think we could do with more liberal power level laws relating mainly to PCP's that can be shot easily at higher levels than the standard tuned spring rifles.

[lensman57]

I think at the time the regulations were thought of we had good engineering back in the day with spring guns, ok they were around 9 to 10 ftlbs, which for most of us Spring fans is more than suitable, we all managed with this level of power and never thought of anything else,,,,did we.

We eventually came to the 1980's and all of a sudden we went FAC mad, how many Fac owners were around before 1980 ?

In reality all we need for most of our purposes are 10 - 11.5 ftlbs, and not any more. If we never had Chrono's then we would never know any better would we ?

Now we have even better knowledge and better engineering with some modern PCP's it shows that the law once made was what was available at the time and not what may be a future invention.

I do think we could do with more liberal power level laws relating mainly to PCP's that can be shot easily at higher levels than the standard tuned spring rifles.

I think that you could insert " safely " in there as well. It takes quite a bit of skill to shoot a 20ft.lbs spring powere air rifle safely and accurately. I think that it would be fair to say that the difference between shooting an 11.5 ft.lbs PCP safely and accurately than one of 20 ft.lbs is not that much if at all there in the first place.

A.G

[charlie350]

I would stand with you if only you would stand for your self

[gndavison]

This has / is one of the best threads wrt history / education and educated views I have seen on this subject

[bighit]

The ideas about registration not licencing, the sub 12 rifles are only meant to weed out the undesirables who will eventually bring about a licencing scheme along the same lines of Scotland which were designed to get rid of the guns.
Think of it as an unpleasant medicine that must be taken if the body is to get well in the near future.
I have my reservations about it but it is preferable to a licencing scheme along the Scottish lines that will bring about the death of air rifle ownership. Lets hope that it will not become necessary.

A.G

mmmmm .1100 applications so far. 6 licenses granted. freedom of information request. so i see the scheme is working sofar. the scheme to get rid of guns that is.
applications

From 1st to 31st July:
1098 Application made for an air gun licence.
6 (six) were granted

What can we deduce from this?

From the first figure it seems either a lot of people are still unaware they need a licence or are simply choosing not to apply perhaps understandably given most people cannot meet the draconian requirements and will have their property forcefully seized.


as terry posted before, turkeys voting for christmas.

[Rich]

But that doesn't mean 1092 refused; at this early stage there is bound to be a lag in getting going. It may well take a year to clear the backlog and until that time the number approved and the number refused may well add up to less than the number applied for.

Nevertheless it's already clear that we don't want anything of this style south of the border. I heard that some forces in Scotland were demanding a 500m range with a solid backstop. What kind of air rifle do they think they are dealing with?

[bighit]

thats just july Rich. there would be more as you say. i know its not the normal firearms team dealing with it. community officers was quoted i believe.

even so its a stupid scheme that wont stop the unlawful pot shotters.

you just need to look at any banned or restricted items,the criminals will still get them and misuse them.

[buttloaves]

35yrs ago a mate of mine took it upon himself to start taking pot shots at the trolley attendants in the local Morrisons car park, the Police were called the gun confiscated, he received a small fine and his gun a hw35e was returned he then sold it to me, we were both amazed when they gave the gun back, he was 14 and i was 15yrs old.