Webley Senior/Mk2 Target Question

[pjbingham]

I have a number of Webley air pistols and I cast my own grips. So far I have made replicas of the post War Mk1 grips and the pre war slant without the "Webley" logo and also the standard Junior grips. My question is are the grips from the Mk2 Target the same as the Pre war straight grip Senior? Reason being is I have a Mk2 Target but not a Pre war Senior to compare them,comparing pics they appear to be interchangeable. I am in the process of creating the moulds for the Mk2 Target but as you can imagine it will be good to find they are interchangeable with the Senior. I may be wasting my time but I am also making moulds for the A&S Warrior although tbh I've never heard of anyone having broken grips on one,theory is if I make some atleast there are some spares in excistance if need be. Atb Phil

[ccdjg]

Yes, the Mk 2 Target and pre-war straight grip Senior do have identical grips. Both made of vulcanite rather than the bakelite used for the slant grip Senior. As far as I can make out, the Warrior grips (old and newer versions) are made of horn (stained black) , which might explain why they do not chip so easily.

[pjbingham]

That's really good news,Thankyou for that The moulds turned out well so all good to go.
Regarding the Warrior grips that explains why they appear a little more robust plus they don't have the inherent weaknesses associated with the Webley grip pin/hole area I guess. Many thanks,Phil

[ccdjg]

Any chance of some pics and description of your work, as it sounds fascinating?

[pjbingham]

Any chance of some pics and description of your work, as it sounds fascinating?

Thankyou,I confess to being worse than useless with computars and have failed so far to work out how to post photos I'm afraid otherwise I'd be more than happy to.
I originally looked into casting grips as I saw a pic of JohnBaz's Premier with Ivory grips and found I couldn't buy any. I looked into making silicone moulds and started with taking casts of post war Webley slant grips. Did a few ivory pairs,then black and then someone suggested trying two-tone so I experimented with that. Moved on to pre War Mk1 grips and Juniors in both black and white. As a one off I cast a number of Webley Service butt plates for a very nice chap on here. I've been asked if I've made any for the straight grip senior which I hadn't as I've yet to add one to my collection sadly but I got my hands on a pair from a Mk2 Target hence the question. I made the moulds today which I'm pleased to say have turned out really well. There was enough silicone left over to make a mould of the Warrior grips too so rather than let it go to waste I did that. I've never been asked about Warrior grips but never say never.
I've not made any to sell,I've just swapped a few and given some to like minded chaps. Sounds sad but I just like the idea of helping to keep some of these old air pistols alive. Atb Phil

[pnird]

Fascinating! I restored a badly-mutilated Mark 2 by reconstructing the grip completely. That involved shaping and attaching the steel frame to the otherwise intact pistol. Having no certain knowledge about the grips, but being the owner of a Senior of the right vintage, I had a friend (a dental lab technician) cast new grips in dental casting plastic, using the Senior grips as the model. This was very successful. I like the idea of producing replacement grips for the Warrior, because I have two, both of which have the original horn grips, which are deteriorating. If you have the same success with these as with your Webley project, please let me know!

John

[pjbingham]

Fascinating! I restored a badly-mutilated Mark 2 by reconstructing the grip completely. That involved shaping and attaching the steel frame to the otherwise intact pistol. Having no certain knowledge about the grips, but being the owner of a Senior of the right vintage, I had a friend (a dental lab technician) cast new grips in dental casting plastic, using the Senior grips as the model. This was very successful. I like the idea of producing replacement grips for the Warrior, because I have two, both of which have the original horn grips, which are deteriorating. If you have the same success with these as with your Webley project, please let me know!

John

Hello from just down the road
Sounds like a labour of love,well done for saving the Senior!
When you say the Warrior grips are deteriorating how do they go? Mine seem to be really quite good luckily but I will keep an eye on them if they deteriorate :s
I will keep you all posted as to how they turn out

[pnird]

Hi

The deterioration of my Warrior grips is most marked as a de-lamination; one has shed a triangular corner, and the exposed inner surface is striated and has a marked grain. I suppose that these grips were made by application of heat and pressure; on both pistols, the appearance of the chequered areas is as if they were becoming blurred - maybe the heat and/or pressure were insufficient? Whatever, they seem unstable over the long term.

John

[Mobiasstrip]

Sounds fascinating and really hope you can get some pictures on to share!
If you ever produce any Acvoke or Abas Major grips then I would love to purchase. My Abas has replacement wooden grips and I have an A&S Acvoke in great condition apart from a small chip out of the RH grip.

Steve

[pjbingham]

Hi

The deterioration of my Warrior grips is most marked as a de-lamination; one has shed a triangular corner, and the exposed inner surface is striated and has a marked grain. I suppose that these grips were made by application of heat and pressure; on both pistols, the appearance of the chequered areas is as if they were becoming blurred - maybe the heat and/or pressure were insufficient? Whatever, they seem unstable over the long term.

John

Thanks,I've just rechecked mine but can't see any start of delamination but I will keep a close eye on them over the coming years. It appears that Warrior grips may be more in need than I originally thought.

[pjbingham]

Sounds fascinating and really hope you can get some pictures on to share!
If you ever produce any Acvoke or Abas Major grips then I would love to purchase. My Abas has replacement wooden grips and I have an A&S Acvoke in great condition apart from a small chip out of the RH grip.

Steve

Thanks,I will definatly try and sort something with the photo's. When I add an Acvoke and a Abas Major to my collection I will certainly look at the grips to see if they can be replicated. I did a very silly thing regarding an Abas Major,I turned one down about ten years ago,the chap had it up for sale for £65 in fantastic condition and a ratty BSA Cadet rifle for £35 and I could only afford the Cadet and my weeks food shopping....now on reflection I wish I had bought the Abas and a couple of Pot noodles to see me through

[ccdjg]

Hi

The deterioration of my Warrior grips is most marked as a de-lamination; one has shed a triangular corner, and the exposed inner surface is striated and has a marked grain. I suppose that these grips were made by application of heat and pressure; on both pistols, the appearance of the chequered areas is as if they were becoming blurred - maybe the heat and/or pressure were insufficient? Whatever, they seem unstable over the long term.

John

According to an 1876 workshop book, horn mouldings were made by taking wafers of horn and compressing them together under heat. The horn becomes soft and the layers "weld" together, and it also takes the impression of any fine detail in the mould. The product can then be dyed any chosen colour and polished, or the wafers could be dyed before laminating.

You can see why the technique gave way to vulcanite (sulphur hardened rubber) and then synthetic plastic bakelite!

[pjbingham]

Cast the first Webley Straight and Warrior grips tonight and they have come out really nice. Photos will be added thanks to forum member Mark D who has got in touch and kindly offered to do it for me,small world turns out he lives 4 miles from me

[Mark D]

Here we go :https://flic.kr/s/aHskJS8sLW

The lad has 'skills'

[gingernut]

Indeed.
I'd like white grips on one of my co2 1911s.