the steyr debate continues

[Rob Edge]

semi autos are for walts. its been proven on here .


you are right. ALL shooters should unite to fight off legalisation off ALL types of shooting when challenged. as you say ,if they break down one form the next forms will be attacked.


although the Scottish airgun license mainly affected the Scottish air gunners ,a fair amount of English shooters dived in to try and help the Scots stop it. I have huge respect for them to try and help us. I would do the same for them and ALL shooting disciplines if they are attacked.

Without wishing to divert the thread too far off topic I for one signed the petition against the legislation. From the outside looking in it would appear that a lot of Scottish shooters shot themselves in the foot by voting SNP.

[bighit]

[QUOTE=Rob Edge;7107184]

Without wishing to divert the thread too far off topic I for one signed the petition against the legislation. From the outside looking in it would appear that a lot of Scottish shooters shot themselves in the foot by voting SNP.

it depends on how many Scots that voted them in and how many of them are shooters though. I know of a few but I bet most did not vote them in.

[nimrod177]

quote

I have always pointed out that if a product was legal then it would be purchasable from the Distributor or UK Concessionaire

unquote

That is what is called a non sequitur. It doesn't follow. The distributor is not necessarily compelled to import or distribute every one of the principal's lines. Any distributor will bring in those products that will make him a margin, and the better the margin the more effort he will put into the marketing.

The problem here is that the importer imported some of the steyr pistols up to the point he was told by the home office they were illegal. He had only sold a few but they were illegal. He inquired ref the steyr sa rifles and was told in no uncertain terms they were illegal and if he prized his rfd to not even think about it. So it is not a case of if he could make a margin as he would have done on both the pistols and rifles, it was a case that he was categorically told not to or risk prosecution. I had several long conversations with steyr uk ref getting the sa rifles for customers and the same outcome was reached. They were illegal in the home office's eyes. The only reason there were some imported in the first place was that of the "grey area" and no definitive answer to the question of the semi auto air rifle/pistol route. Clarification soon came with several letters/e-mails that the home office would consider them illegal until such times as a review of the act was implemented. So watch that space as to the outcome of the review when and if it comes or what the police force concerned does about the seized weapons/guns/air guns or whatever people wish to call them.

[blooregard]

If you don't have absolute certainty about shot placement you shouldn't be pulling the trigger until you do. The only exception would be if the quarry moved during the firing cycle but even that is unlikely to result in a second shot.

So, you've never missed, EVER ?

[Rob Edge]

So, you've never missed, EVER ?

No. Weather conditions can make a freak miss possible but it boils down to ability and confidence. If you don't go out with ability and lack confidence stick to target shooting because their's no place for you in the field.

[Rich]

The problem here is that the importer imported some of the steyr pistols up to the point he was told by the home office they were illegal. He had only sold a few but they were illegal. He inquired ref the steyr sa rifles and was told in no uncertain terms they were illegal and if he prized his rfd to not even think about it. So it is not a case of if he could make a margin as he would have done on both the pistols and rifles, it was a case that he was categorically told not to or risk prosecution. I had several long conversations with steyr uk ref getting the sa rifles for customers and the same outcome was reached. They were illegal in the home office's eyes. The only reason there were some imported in the first place was that of the "grey area" and no definitive answer to the question of the semi auto air rifle/pistol route. Clarification soon came with several letters/e-mails that the home office would consider them illegal until such times as a review of the act was implemented. So watch that space as to the outcome of the review when and if it comes or what the police force concerned does about the seized weapons/guns/air guns or whatever people wish to call them.

Thank you for the information. It does seem that the North Yorkshire force takes a different view from others, for example Thames Valley. I'm happy with the HO considering them illegal as that is how it was - and arguably still is - according to the letter of the law, except for the get-out-of-jail-free card which was dealt, declaring nobody would be prosecuted simply for possession. I suspect it was another piece of badly-worded drafting, and the "card" was meant for those in possession at the time, not future purchasers. But that is not what it says.


Rob Edge's assumption is still logically flawed, though.

[Tone]

The rapid fire competitions for which the LP50 is designed for is an international sport:

ISSF courses in two classes for Standard Pistol, Sport Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol, fired at 25m, but with .177 air pistols.

I believe Harry Preston has been importing them for a good number of years and selling them at healthy margins based on pre brexit exchange rates.

Why just turn your back on this sport without any definitive HO statement, and leave all those pistol owners out in the cold without a clue what to do next?

[Tone]

The rapid fire competitions for which the LP50 is designed for is an international sport:

ISSF courses in two classes for Standard Pistol, Sport Pistol and Rapid Fire Pistol, fired at 25m, but with .177 air pistols.

I believe Harry Preston has been importing them for a good number of years and selling them at healthy margins based on pre brexit exchange rates.

Why just turn your back on this sport without any definitive HO statement, and leave all those pistol owners out in the cold without a clue what to do next?

If you own one of these pistols and all you possess is a single shot mag, which you can buy easily, so you have to reload the magazine after one shot, how can that be termed a danger to general public in a sub 6ft lb target pistol?

The whole lot stinks and it shows what a spineless bunch of representatives we have for our sport.

[mikehill]

At the power they are rated at it's outrageous. I have no need for anything but a single shot, but would defend anyone else wanting to use one. Which of our representative bodies will make a stand over this ?

[tigercat]

We don't need to think. We know. Dorset FEO put matters in writing to both my clubs when I was on committee and in the chair.

Why would you think it wasn't?

hi RobF
the comment was wrongly worded as i miss read your post i read it as some one saying that there was no hope of getting your FEO to put it in writing not as you have said that they HAVE PUT IT IN WRITING sorry for my mistake and any dispersions

[Rickenbacker]

Well to my mind, if this is still current / valid:

The Home Office have consulted ACPO and the Crown Prosecution Service about the legal status of
these weapons and have agreed, in the absence of a court ruling, that the issue should be resolved
formally at the next legislative opportunity. In the meantime chief officers are advised that self-loading
or pump-action rifled airguns should continue to be regarded as falling outside the certification process
provided that they are low powered and do not fall within the Firearms (Dangerous Air
Weapons) Rules 1969.♣

*

Then North Yorkshire Police will get that answer from CPS, and any idea of a court case following would be NFA'd. And presumably, Harry P. should get his guns back.

But, from what's happened, it seems like things may have moved on from being "in the meantime".

In which case, does anybody know of any updated guidance?

Mr D? David BASC?


* Quote sourced from the "Know your law - air weapons" pdf, available here: https://basc.org.uk/airgunning/advic...d-fact-sheets/

[Rob Edge]

Rob Edge's assumption is still logically flawed, though.

Go on then, what part of my "assumption" is wrong? My understanding comes directly from a well known and respected professional source. Add to that a chat with an FEO who confirmed that until a reform is passed that specifically allows semi auto air guns it must be assumed that they are not permitted due to the strict nature of the act permitting only .22 rimfire rifles.

[Jackel]

Lets keep this on track eh? we were going to pull it but allowed it to run,,, lets not lock it off

[tigercat]

lets just hope that at the end of the day the powers that be change the wording allowing all airgun shooters to use there prefered choice of action to best suit there prefered discipline inside the 12/6 ftlb limits

[Rob Edge]

lets just hope that at the end of the day the powers that be change the wording allowing all airgun shooters to use there prefered choice of action to best suit there prefered discipline inside the 12/6 ftlb limits

Unfortunately the line has to be drawn somewhere or you could equally same the same about all forms of firearms. I would love a full auto AR15 but what do I really need one for?