Long range 357 magnum - bullet weight?

[Simon_S]

I use a 3gr Tightgroup with a 180gr tc in my 357mag very good at 50m but would drop like brick at 100.
3 gr is the start load for 170gr 38spe.

[boff180]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice above.

Before I tried different powders, I went down the range today with the Club Chrono to try my standard powder Viht N320.

I tried a number of different bullets with the maximum load and compared it to my usual target load. I did not go for accuracy I was checking velocity to see if it would drop subsonic over 100 metres, hinting a more powerful powder may be required.

The results were as follows:-

Load 1 - Standard Target Load
Calibre: .357 Magnum
Case: S&B .357 Magnum - fired 3 times
Primer: CCI Small Pistol
Bullet: GM Hardcast 158 grain TC
Powder: Viht N320
Charge: 4.8 grains - maximum .38spl load from Viht load data
Rifle: Uberti Winchester 1873 Sporting
Barrel: 24 1/4 inch

Velocity: 1,066fps
Energy: 399ftlb

Load 2 - Maximum Load - Lead
Calibre: .357 Magnum
Case: S&B .357 Magnum - fired 3 times
Primer: CCI Small Pistol
Bullet: GM Hardcast 158 grain TC
Powder: Viht N320
Charge: 6.6 grains - maximum .357mag load from Viht load data
Rifle: Uberti Winchester 1873 Sporting
Barrel: 24 1/4 inch

Velocity: 1,320fps
Energy: 611ftlb

Load 3 - Maximum Load - TMJ
Calibre: .357 Magnum
Case: S&B .357 Magnum - fired 3 times
Primer: CCI Small Pistol
Bullet: 158 grain Total Metal Jacket RNFP
Powder: Viht N320
Charge: 6.6 grains - maximum .357mag load from Viht load data
Rifle: Uberti Winchester 1873 Sporting
Barrel: 24 1/4 inch

Velocity: 1,210fps
Energy: 514ftlb

Load 4 - Maximum Load - Polymer
Calibre: .357 Magnum
Case: S&B .357 Magnum - fired 3 times
Primer: CCI Small Pistol
Bullet: 158 grain TC - polymer coated - green
Powder: Viht N320
Charge: 6.6 grains - maximum .357mag load from Viht load data
Rifle: Uberti Winchester 1873 Sporting
Barrel: 24 1/4 inch

Velocity: 1,310fps
Energy: 602ftlb



Based off this, I think I can see why it isn't doing well at 100 metres.... I haven't ran the numbers in a ballistic calculator but I believe it's dropping subsonic and destabilising.

As a result I've today acquired a tub of H110 and will try again with this project. Hogdon data puts the rifle velocity out of an 18 1/2 inch barrel between 1600 and 1750fps... Lyman has larger loads listed too.

Ta

Andy

[ZaksGod]

just for a comparison in my little .357 1894 marlin with 4.8gr of bullseye,fiocchi primers,158gr hard cast hannam rnfp i get approx 1156 fps.that is the max load in my book.so with your longer barrel and my powder your velocity should be a fair bit higher

[dodgyrog]

Somewhat amused by this as Elmer Keith was driving 44 Magnum 240gr boolits to 400 yards with accuracy out of a 4" revolver. Getting a .357 mag to shoot at 100 yards should be a walk in the park!
Personally I would use a heavy round nose around 170gr (I have a lovely 6 cavity Hensley and Gibbs mould) driven by a healthy load of Alliant blue dot or Viht equivalent (340 I believe). Good shooting.

[tacfoley]

I've shot .357Mag at 300m with great lack of success - undoubtedly you'll do better than I did shooting your Low Wall and its lovely long barrel by comparison with my 8.375" S&W. Loads in that for 300m were not comfortable in a handgun, but would be just fine for a rifle.

Since I'm not in the business of posting reloading data here based on my own experience, I'll let you look up the details, but I WAS shooting a 170gr gas-checked hard cast rather than a FMJ - see post #13.

Lead seemed to work better on steel than FMJs - maybe its was an illusion, who knows?

tac

[airgunnut]

Somewhat amused by this as Elmer Keith was driving 44 Magnum 240gr boolits to 400 yards with accuracy out of a 4" revolver. Getting a .357 mag to shoot at 100 yards should be a walk in the park!
Personally I would use a heavy round nose around 170gr (I have a lovely 6 cavity Hensley and Gibbs mould) driven by a healthy load of Alliant blue dot or Viht equivalent (340 I believe). Good shooting.

Well, Elmer Keith did load his pistols up to the hilt, he developed a number of rounds, countless loads and quite a few bullet head (bootlits or whatever you want to call them) shapes, he also developed the "reclined" pistol shooting position, sat down leaning back on to a solid post or some thing and resting the pistol on his knee, not to mention his "this isn't going to beat me" attitude (for those not for familiar with Elmer Keith, try to get hold of his autobiography, Hell I was there)

[DesG]

I did a lot of .357 long range shooting back in the day with a six inch barrel ruger with mixed results. I entered the Phoenix shoot for underlevers this year with my Marlin 1894c. At 100 yards it's suprissingly accurate but it becomes quite vague as the range gets up to 300. It is still a pistol bullet with the aerodynamics of a brick, and the speed drops off very quickly. Drag is an inverse square law so doubling the initial speed quadruples the drag. You only have to compare a HV rifle bullet to a 38 swc to see why long range shooting is very much a rifle thing. Another thing to remember is that it's the BASE of the projectile which causes the most drag with a huge vacuum forming behind the bullet in flight pulling it back.

Not to say I wont have another go at the Phoenix this year though!