Double Spring Clip Webley Mk1 Air Pistol.

[Garvin]

An expert in these pistols has just pointed out to me that any potential buyers would be wise to exercise caution!

He points out that the spring clips are much too long and have no 'dimple', and that the breech block is damaged with the frontal projections broken.

As for the high serial no., it has been overstamped. He speculates that maybe it went back to Webley for work, hence the confusingly high number overstamped. He reports no.707 is known to have the familiar sliding top latch.

This pistol also has a rear plug retained by a screw, which is wrong for the purported period.

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

[Abasmajor]

An expert in these pistols has just pointed out to me that any potential buyers would be wise to exercise caution!

He points out that the spring clips are much too long and have no 'dimple', and that the breech block is damaged with the frontal projections broken.

As for the high serial no., it has been overstamped. He speculates that maybe it went back to Webley for work, hence the confusingly high number overstamped. He reports no.707 is known to have the familiar sliding top latch.

This pistol also has a rear plug retained by a screw, which is wrong for the purported period.

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

Hi Danny,

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Caveat emptor as they say.

Regards

Brian

[JimmieDee]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Caveat emptor as they say.

Regards

Brian

Hey Danny,

My observations are:

The spring clips may have been replaced.

The broken frontal projections - this is not uncommon. This may have been done at the factory either by accident or deliberately or they may have been broken off with use. It is possible that at the factory, one projection could have been broken and that they removed the other deliberately in order to sell the pistol. There is another, later variant of the double spring clip that was made without the projections above the spring clips.

The rear plug retaining screw is also not unheard of.

The high serial number is the real oddity in my opinion. But an intriguing one nonetheless.

I have two double spring clips in my collection.

#281 Thicker reinforced (?) barrel. Projections broken off or removed. Visible signs that they existed. No retaining screw.
#656 Thin barrel. No projections. Not broken off. The metal work is square. Retaining screw present.

It is very plausible that design improvements were added to the double spring clip before the 2nd series with the sliding barrel catch was introduced.

As ever, I will fully document these variations in an article on my blog page when I get round to it.

All the best,
Jimmie Dee

[Gareth W-B]

Thanks for sharing the reservations regarding the 'Spring Clip' which once again highlights the importance of this site and the invaluable input available from experts within and sometimes outside the forum.

Indeed and agreed. Many thanks.

[Troubledshooter]

Lastly, he points out that the interior of the box tray is not shown so there is no way of knowing if the original, large double pellet compartment is still intact or present.

The boxes with the larger inner compartment were also slightly smaller in overall dimensions than the later Mk.1 WG boxes with the smaller inner compartment.

[Davidm61]

I've been looking at this at gun on Holts as well, and the styling of the breech block where the barrel 'clicks' in, and the inclusion of the screw to retain/locate the breech/rear air cylinder plug is shown in a photo of a double spring clip MK1 on page 16 of Gordon Bruces 'Webley Air Pistols' book. Sadly it doesn't show the serial number of that gun, and yes, the spring clips are different, having the 'dimples' that would push against the barrel. But the photo at least shows a MK1 double spring clip with a similar set up to the one on Holts site.

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

[Garvin]

Where it has been said in earlier posts that breech is broken, could anyone please point out where, as from the photos on Holts site I can't see any damage to the gun.

Many thanks.

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

[Davidm61]

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

Many thanks, appreciated. Presumably this is the case then for the one shown in Bruces book, or was there a variant without the projections? Sorry for the questions, but I've never had the opportunity to handle on of these double clip versions, so having to rely on what I can find on the forums/internet/books.

Thanks.

[Troubledshooter]

The forward projections on the breech block appear to have snapped or been removed. This pistol shows a damaged breech from above.

This is a not uncommon problem with both the Wood Gripped Mk.I and the Wood Gripped Junior.
My own example of a boxed Wood Gripped Junior, now sold, had a broken corner on the top right side of the breech block, the side view of which can be seen in the 'Webley Junior' section on my signature site, particularly if the photograph is enlarged.

[Troubledshooter]

Double Spring Clips 219 and 374 both have their complete breech sides.

[JimmieDee]

Revisiting this thread as I have some new observations....

There were three proposed reasons for the missing breech protrusions:

To quote slug-gun, who is a very experienced collector and author of Webley Air Rifles 1925-2005, there are three scenarios:

1. Either both projections were broken off on a pistol which has seen very little use, and then expertly repaired and blued over by its owner to match the existing action?

2. Webley decided at some point, probably fairly late on in the making of the double spring clips, that the projections had a limited function and removed them during manufacture?

3. The pistol was sent back to the factory by the owner because the projections were bending or whatever, and Webley 'fettled' the pistol at that point in time?


Not too long ago, a double spring clip came appeared at Kempton. Looking at the photos it seems that it has the breech protrusions or at least one is intact. It is serial number 1257 which is pretty high. That would seem to preclude option 2. Unless this pistol, and maybe there are others, was old stock that Webley eventually decided to stamp with a serial number and sell. Would Webley have left stamping of the serial number to a late stage in the production cycle though?

More food for thought for sure!