Newbie to casting - mystery alloy!

[Jamie]

Hi Chaps,

I've just started playing with casting bullets for my .30-30. (Hopefully muskets, kentucky rifle, 8mm and .45-120 to follow!)

I bought a lot of reclaimed shot from an auction for the best part of naff all. I'm not convinced it's lead tho. It was coated in a layer of oxide and crap, but when I melted it and skimmed it and poured ingots, it set very hard (a piece 4" diameter by 1/4" thick isn't bendable by hand) The ingots 'ring' if you tap them with a hammer.

When it does bend, it seems to 'click' as tin does. It also melts with my lee pot set at minimum, which is meant to be about 450 degrees, the melting point of tin. I cast some bullets with it from a Lee 170 grain mould and they come out at 160 grains or so, so too dense to be tin. What in earth is it? Very hard lead shot?

Can I alloy it with straight lead? What sort of proportions would be a starting point?

Many thanks in advance, Jamie!

[zanes]

Could lead free shot (bismuth/some sort of complex alloy like hevi-shot) be mixed in with the lead shot and be forming some sort of alloy when you melt it?

[TALL]

had a similar problem when melting shot,
through it all away in the end,
I know that's not much help to you,
T

[enfield2band]

As said, it could have lead substutes mixed in.

Have you looked at the possibility of some of it being zinc? Wheel weights and a lot of flashing is now zinc.

If you want to try alloying it with lead start off with small amounts and work your way up. It does not take much tin to harden lead so if this stuff is harder then it might not need too much in the alloy.

If you do try it see if you can test it for hardenss by comparing it with an alloy of know hardness.

I hope you sort it out.

[Jamie]

Thanks gents.

It's definitely fired shot so I don't think it's zinc.

I do have some most excellent cast bullets from Dodgyrog on here so I can compare to those. Also some hardcast from Kranks that I use for plinking. Is there a simple way to get an accurate comparison without buying a testing thingy? Funds are a mite low at the moment!

Cheers

[Simon_S]

Hit it with a hammer

[airgunnut]

Your better off buying a roll of lead flashing or digging out a backstop to reclaim the lead, if the stuff you have is as hard as you say then it would be very useful, pure lead might be too soft for a rifle load so add an ingot (or 2) to harden the lead mix, you will have to experiment with the mix.
Years ago I was given a bucket of airgun pellets from a target box, I gave it to another shooter to melt down to cast, he thought the resulting bullet would be too hard (airgun pellets have a lot of antimony) he was shocked when he found the bullets he had cast were not hard enough.

[DesG]

Shotgun shot is very hard to prevent the pellets from deforming in the barrel, airgun pellets are usually swaged from soft lead so that they will deform in the barrel and fit the rifling. Chuck the hard lead in with the soft lead (about 1:5 ratio) and you should end up with perfect lead for low to mid velocity bullets.

[enfield2band]

Thanks gents.

It's definitely fired shot so I don't think it's zinc.

I do have some most excellent cast bullets from Dodgyrog on here so I can compare to those. Also some hardcast from Kranks that I use for plinking. Is there a simple way to get an accurate comparison without buying a testing thingy? Funds are a mite low at the moment!

Cheers

Years ago I had a go at making comparisons with different types of lead to tell how hard it is.

I got a tube about 4 foot long, and a metal weight of about 1Lb. I put a bullet that I had cast on a metal plate, I put the tube over it and dropped the weight from the the top. I did it to 1/2doz bullets and I then measured the amount of deformation with a micrometer.
Ok, its not rocket science but it worked good enough to let me know whether or not the lead was harder or softer than a bullet of know hardness.

Airgunnut:- I tested airgun pellets as well. They have the same hardness as water pipe.

[Jamie]

I have got some pure lead I use for the kentucky so can alloy it with the hard stuff. I was just a bit worried about it not being lead and knackering my barrel. I guess I'll just start with a little bit and go from there. The idea of a lead squishing machine sounds good.

Any further advice gratefully received!

[tacfoley]

Muzzleloading rifles need as near to pure lead as you can get, as in the case of the 'Kentucky'. So do any handguns that load from the front.

High-stepping calibres [in BP terms] that shoot cartridges, like your proposed .45-120, like bullets a little harder, about the same as centre-fire revolver cartridge as shot from an underlever. Nothing harder that that or the bullet will simply skip the rifling, leaving you with a leaded-up bore.

I shoot my .45-70 High Wall with about an 80% lead bullet - so-called 'hard cast' - these can be found from True-Flight in B'ham if you want to make a comparison.

tac

[Jamie]

Thanks Tac.
I've already done a bit for the kentucky and got on OK, though it didn't like the Lee REALs I tried - but I suspect that was a twist rate issue as opposed to the bullets.

I was actually after a .45-70 but the 120 came up - not done a deal yet but it too is an 1885 high wall - much more elegant than the Sharps methinks!

[andrew375]

Lead shot is usually alloyed with Arsenic or Antimony to precipitation harden it to help the pellets remain in shape. Just try casting with it, if it casts ok go with it.

[Treebone]

If you want repeatable accuracy with lead cast bullets you need settle on an alloy that is consistent and easily re-made, not knowing the exact composition is not going to help when you need to mix up more alloy, this is especially true when you come to cast for your 45-120, i cast for my 45-100 and found this out the hard way.

TB

[Jamie]

Thanks for all the advice. I've got 40lb + of this shot so enough to keep me going for a while. I mixed some with straight lead over the weekend and tried some on the range yesterday, results weren't stellar but useable and I suspect load development has some way to go yet. Casting technique needs refining too!

Fun though!