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Thread: Black powder

  1. #1
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    Black powder

    Can anyone tell what difference black powder has from pyrodex

  2. #2
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    Black powder is an explosive for which you need a licence and approved storage. Pyrodex is a substitute for which you don't need a licence or special approved storage. It works just the same and is used by volume the same as b/p. I've used it but to be honest I don't know anyone with a b/p licence who uses it. Tim

  3. #3
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    Pyrodex doesn't work with flint, can give a delay on a percussion shotgun and has a funny smell.

    I think it is good for cap'n'ball pistols but I don't shoot those

    As said it is a propellant not an explosive so no certificate required.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Black powder is an explosive for which you need a licence and approved storage. Pyrodex is a substitute for which you don't need a licence or special approved storage. It works just the same and is used by volume the same as b/p. I've used it but to be honest I don't know anyone with a b/p licence who uses it. Tim
    You still need the approved storage box for Pyrodex and other smokeless powders!
    Pistol & Rifle Shooting in the Highlands with Strathpeffer Rifle & Pistol Club. <StrathRPC at yahoo.com> or google it.
    No longer Pumpin Oil but still Passin Gas!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Black powder is an explosive for which you need a licence and approved storage. Pyrodex is a substitute for which you don't need a licence or special approved storage. It works just the same and is used by volume the same as b/p. I've used it but to be honest I don't know anyone with a b/p licence who uses it. Tim
    That's the thing, with Pyrodex, you don't need a b/p licence to use it!

    Any supplier of Pyrodex should still satisfy themselves that you hold a valid SGC or FAC before selling to you. same-same as Primers & percussion caps.
    Pistol & Rifle Shooting in the Highlands with Strathpeffer Rifle & Pistol Club. <StrathRPC at yahoo.com> or google it.
    No longer Pumpin Oil but still Passin Gas!

  6. #6
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    b/p

    I found 777 to far surpass pyrodex,
    but I still like the old BLACK for rifles and swiss for pistols,
    it is easy to get a ticket and well worth it,
    T

  7. #7
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    Pyrodex has the following properties that need to be taken into account -

    There are a number of different grades for different uses -

    P [standing for PISTOL] is very fine, the equivalent of 3Fg, and is used for ALL handguns and small calibre BP rifles in good condition up to ca.45calibre.

    RS [standing for RIFLE and SHOTGUN] is about the same a 2Fg, and is used for heavier charges in rifles and shotguns.

    CTG [standing for CARTRIDGE] is specially formulated for use in BP cartridge firearms of any calibre up to and including .45-70/90/110/120. I HAVE seen it used in .577-450 Enfield, but with great lack of success.

    Pyrodex is MORE energetic than an equal WEIGHT of BP, IOW, a 70gr BP of 2Fg load in a .45-70 Govt cartridge can be replaced by a lesser amount of Pyrodex AND a space-filling wadding. It does not mind a small amount of compression. but there must be NO air-space whatsoever between the base of the bullet and the charge. Using a volumetric measure, you'll find at least 5% difference

    Pyrodex 'Select' grade may be used to replace 2Fg - it is said to be more consistent in performance.

    Triple 7.

    Is more flagrant than Pyrodex P or Select - loads should be reduced at least 10% from an equal WEIGHT of BP of the same grade. Triple 7 does NOT like being compressed more than putting the bullet on top of it - Hodgdons' words, not mine

    There are a couple more, like Clean-Shot, but I know nothing about them.

    BTW, NONE of the subs work well in a flintlock action, especially in the powder pan. This is because Pyrodex has a far higher flash initiation point than any grade of BP by a country mile - sparks from the frizzen just refuse to light this stuff up. Triple 7 is needs even hotter ignition, about 777F, hence the name.

    ALL of the subs, regardless of what you may have been told - are HIGHLY corrosive if left in guns. Clean up on the range is good, and then again as soon as you get home.

    The benefits in a country where you need a license to buy real BP is that you don't need a license to buy any of the subs, as Tim noted above. Plus you get more shots per pound, too

    Last thing - because they are more energetic than BP, they feel a lot different to shoot. More like nitro than Black.

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DedIdick View Post
    You still need the approved storage box for Pyrodex and other smokeless powders!
    Common sense says yes - depending on who you talk to says its the law, but unless somebody can point me at it, I can't find it.

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TALL View Post
    I found 777 to far surpass pyrodex,
    but I still like the old BLACK for rifles and swiss for pistols,
    it is easy to get a ticket and well worth it,
    T
    That's as it should be. Triple 7 is what inventor Dan Pawluk intended Pyrodex to be, but he got hisself blode up 'afore he could complete his development.

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Common sense says yes - depending on who you talk to says its the law, but unless somebody can point me at it, I can't find it.

    tac

    Directly from the HSE, page 100. "Explosive Regulations 2014"

    Shooters’ powder
    2 Shooters’ powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder.
    3 The powder should be kept in containers with no more than 1 kg of powder
    per container. The containers should be constructed in such a way that, in the
    event of a fire they do not provide additional containment that will either increase
    the explosive force of any deflagration or cause smokeless powder to detonate.
    Normally plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers should be used. Metal
    containers with a screw cap or a push-in lid must not be used.
    4 Although shooters’ powders are generally not very sensitive to ignition by
    electrostatic discharge, homeloaders or others who decant the contents of plastic
    containers should take care to reduce the risk of static electricity build-up. Advice
    on precautions may be sought from the manufacturer.
    5 The containers of powder should be kept in a box constructed of plywood
    with a minimum thickness of 18 mm and a maximum thickness of 24 mm
    .
    6 Where the box holds more than one container, each individual container
    should be separated by a 6 mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer
    walls of the box. Each compartment should allow 30% additional height between
    the top of the container and the inside of the lid.
    7 There should be a good seal to prevent a flame path between the lid of the
    box and the interior. An intumescent strip should be fitted around the edges of the
    lid to give a good seal or alternatively, a stepped lid or internal second lid should be
    fitted.
    8 The box should be constructed so that there is no exposed metal on the
    inside. Internal nuts should be covered by a glued wooden liner not less than
    6 mm.
    9 Figure 1 shows a box that would meet the requirements set out in the previous
    paragraphs.
    I rest my case.

    Only thing being whether these "regulations" are actually enforceable as there seems to be a lot of "Should" and not many "Must".
    Pistol & Rifle Shooting in the Highlands with Strathpeffer Rifle & Pistol Club. <StrathRPC at yahoo.com> or google it.
    No longer Pumpin Oil but still Passin Gas!

  11. #11
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    777 48.95lb
    Pyrodex 36.85lb
    BP(Kranks) 18 500gm

    Even Swiss finest quality is only 33 for 500gm.

    Simple init?

    Oh and the plastic stuff stinks!
    DesG
    "Always try to learn from other's mistakes. You haven't time to make them all yourself."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Common sense says yes - depending on who you talk to says its the law, but unless somebody can point me at it, I can't find it.

    tac
    Exactly, my powders are locked away but have never seen a law saying they must be stored in an "approved box" as per my b/p. Tim

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Exactly, my powders are locked away but have never seen a law saying they must be stored in an "approved box" as per my b/p. Tim
    See post#10
    Pistol & Rifle Shooting in the Highlands with Strathpeffer Rifle & Pistol Club. <StrathRPC at yahoo.com> or google it.
    No longer Pumpin Oil but still Passin Gas!

  14. #14
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    Well, NOW we have.

    Sh*t, my local gun store is all closed up, dang it. Guess I'll have to continue to use my large compartmented wooden, loose lid ammunition boxes instead.

    Until the store opens up again.

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesG View Post
    777 48.95lb
    Pyrodex 36.85lb
    BP(Kranks) 18 500gm

    Even Swiss finest quality is only 33 for 500gm.

    Simple init?

    Oh and the plastic stuff stinks!
    That's fine IF you live around a spit and fart from Kranks. Many of us, including YOU, Sir, do not, and the drive to Yorkshire to collect the stuff wipes out the difference for sure, with the cost of fuel on these isles. Whinemeal, I can get Pyrodex after a fifteen minute drive, or ask a pal [yes, I still have one or two] to get it for me.

    Buying even the cheap stuff from Kranks STILL entails a 25 HAZMAT supplement - add that to your eighteen quid Krank's powder and that's more than the Pyrodex, right?

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

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