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Thread: Hammer forged barrels

  1. #1
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    Hammer forged barrels

    I'm sure this is going to be a big ol' can o' worms but...

    I have read many reports of how good BSA hammer forged barrels are.

    In fullbore rifle, hammer forged barrels tend to be considered less accurate than button or cut rifled barrels.

    I am curious about this.

    Are BSA the only manufacturer still using hammer forged barrels?

    I read that some Steyr owners re-barrel their guns with BSA barrels. This seems contradictory as i would expect Steyr to fit the most accurate barrel possible?

    Is it possible that the polishing to the BSA barrel is what makes it more accurate?

    Any opinions welcome!

  2. #2
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    As the barrels don't get heated up on air rifles the difference is pretty much irrelevant, what matters is the production tolerances.

    I find some BSA barrels really good and some pretty bad, the best barrels I have tried are the HW and Lothar Walther.

  3. #3
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    This may help explain a few things. https://youtu.be/HrmWN0igJY0

    All down to cost.

    I believe that CZ still hammer forge their barrels? (I do stand to be correct though by a more enlightened soul)

    ATB
    Mike
    Last edited by happydad; 11-01-2017 at 05:47 AM.
    HW100kt Ajst Laminate stock + Sightron s111
    HW100 barreled Steyr Lg110 + Zos
    Anchultz 8002 s2 + Sightron s111

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artfull-Bodger View Post
    I find some BSA barrels really good and some pretty bad ...
    I have to agree that this must be the case ... especially the older style.

    I've had loads of HW barrels that have all been good re air rifle pellets. Same with Falcon barrels which I believe are Lothar Walther and the CZ barrel on my S200 is very accurate.

    I've had a few BSA 0.177 barrels and they are basically useless unless you use longer heavier pellets like Bis Mags, JSB Heavies etc.

    Whenever there's a thread about BSA barrels ( rifles ) plenty people agree with that but several others will post and say their BSA barrel is excellent with the more popular, and lighter, JSB 8.44gr pellets.

    So it seems it's a lottery.

    A number of people figured that the BSA method left imperfections in the rifling and that was improved by polishing. Post polishing the accuracy improved.

    The later BSA barrels are apparently polished post production and more people have claimed that they shoot the lighter stuff well.

    Pushing pellets down my BSA barrels has shown a big variation in tight/slack areas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnnBoann6CY
    Last edited by bozzer; 11-01-2017 at 06:57 AM.

  5. #5
    rgc_swanseaARC is online now He's not the Stig,,,He's the Stig's Welsh cousin
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    Im on my 3rd barrel on my TTR1, it took me that long to get one i was happy with.

    The original would only shoot Bisley Magnums / Baracuda Match acceptably. I bought a HW blank and its bore was all over the place, couldn't get decent results with anything (confirmed by phil d)

    Now on a LW machined to 14 inch that shoots JSB Express very well, but still not found the perfect pellet (unless the Express is it)

    It is pretty much pot luck.

    On the subject of hammered barrels, i believe Cometa still make their own hammered barrels also. I had one years ago and speak as you find the barrel was very good with accupells at the time. The internals needed work, but the barrel would have been a good donor for a PCP.

    Regards,
    Rhys
    Theoben TTR1 .177, Steven B Blue/Grey Laminate Stock, Nutshot Mod, Falcon Menace 10x42 B20 Ret
    Admin: www.theoben-rapid.co.uk

  6. #6
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    So according to the video, LW make smaller quantities of barrels than BSA as he says Button rifling is for medium quantity and Hammer forging is for mass production...

    I'd have thought LW make a lot more than BSA???

  7. #7
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    Never had a bad BSA barrel

  8. #8
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    See ... a familiar thread ...

    Those that will claim the 0.177 are useless with anything other than Bis Mags/'cudas etc ... and those that say they've never had a problem.

    'tis what it is.

  9. #9
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    Steyr used hammer forged barrels on the earlier LG100's...commonly referred to as 'barley twist'. I've owned 2 barley twist barrelled Steys in the past and they were both very unfussy with pellets, accurate at long range and didn't need much cleaning. The only Hammer forged BSA barrel i've used was converted to fit the Steyr and wasn't bad at all...pretty much the same as a converted CZ barrel i played with as well. the CZ and the BSA barrels needed more cleaning than the standard Steyr barrels i have so i decided to stick with the originals as there wasn't anything in accuracy or percieved more/less wind drift.

  10. #10
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    Makes you wonder if one of their mandrels is a bit dodgy?

    My Scorpion barrel is a bit fussy but once I found the correct die it's a goodun, I have had two other BSA's in .177 and they were good too but had one on a Lightning which wouldn't group no matter what I put through it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    Steyr used hammer forged barrels on the earlier LG100's...commonly referred to as 'barley twist'. I've owned 2 barley twist barrelled Steys in the past and they were both very unfussy with pellets, accurate at long range and didn't need much cleaning. The only Hammer forged BSA barrel i've used was converted to fit the Steyr and wasn't bad at all...pretty much the same as a converted CZ barrel i played with as well. the CZ and the BSA barrels needed more cleaning than the standard Steyr barrels i have so i decided to stick with the originals as there wasn't anything in accuracy or percieved more/less wind drift.

    Hi Chris,

    Did you decide not to bother trying out a HW100 barrel?

    Have to say that the HW barrel fitted to my Steyr is an absolute gem, and my HW100KT is also another very good barreled rifle.

    ATB
    Mike
    HW100kt Ajst Laminate stock + Sightron s111
    HW100 barreled Steyr Lg110 + Zos
    Anchultz 8002 s2 + Sightron s111

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artfull-Bodger View Post
    Makes you wonder if one of their mandrels is a bit dodgy?
    Maybe ... or just tolerances like you said earlier.

    I remember the old Webley 0.22 barrels that were always oversized compared to the Continental stuff from the Germans etc.

    Wasp pellets used to come in 2 sizes ... 5.5mm for German barrels and 5.6mm for British barrels as the Brit barrels were slightly oversize. Strangely enough I used to find the generally large American Crosman pellets went well in my old Webleys.

    So maybe the barrels are slightly generally oversize in the 0.177 BSA barrels. The 0.22 seem much better and less pellet fussy.

    So if you have slightly oversized bores and you get a barrel that is at the large size of tolerance then maybe that is a fussy barrel and will only shoot the larger/longer pellets well?

    When I first started posting about my BSA 0.177 problems a lot of lads from Rivi said to use JSB 4.53.

    Now I have a lot of respect for the lads on the boards who post saying that the numbers on the tins of JSB/AA are basically pointless ( mainly Bri and RobF ). I too have found that. Just to be contrary I have also found that on the odd tin the numbers do make sense and the 4.52 or 4.53 are generally larger ( there's always a big mix of sizes within each tin ).

    In general I've always found that the actual sizes of pellet heads are much smaller than any of the sizes stated.

    I found the head sizes of Bis Mags/Barracudas tended to be closer to what it said on the tin ... and the boxed Crosman Prems ( which also go well in the 0.177 BSA barrels ) are massive.

    I have actually found the odd batch of JSB that have shot quite well in the BSA barrel and no surprise that the heads were actually on the larger side.

    When I've probed pellets through the BSA barrel, in all cases there is more resistance at the start and at the end with less resistance through the middle section. Trying the smaller pellets and through the middle section there is no felt resistance and they seem to fall through.

    So maybe if you get a mix of a slack end tolerance BSA 0.177 barrel and a smaller head batch JSB pellet ... you've got problems and it takes the larger/longer pellets to go well in that barrel. Maybe if you get a tight end tolerance BSA 0.177 barrel and a larger head batch JSB pellet ... then they shoot well. Hence two groups of shooters on the boards ... one claiming no good with anything other than Bis Mags etc and the others saying great with JSB.

    Or ... maybe it's down to the imperfections and polishing etc. Some barrels have less imperfections and will shoot JSB ok but some have bad imperfections that do need polishing out.

    So we've arrived back at your " ... one of their mandrels is a bit dodgy? ".

    I drove myself mad trying to sort out that BSA barrel. I've still got the rifle and that barrel. I read all sorts of stuff. People saying that the type of end on the bolt probe on the BSA meant that some pellet tails went better than other pellet tails due to the shape of the probe. That seemed to make sense also as the bolt probe is a larger diameter and the bases of the Crosman Prems and Bis Mags maybe coped better that the thinner, more flimsy tails of the JSB.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydad View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Did you decide not to bother trying out a HW100 barrel?

    Have to say that the HW barrel fitted to my Steyr is an absolute gem, and my HW100KT is also another very good barreled rifle.

    ATB
    Mike
    Mike...you sod

    I did put it on the back burner....until i read your post.

    I think i will order a couple of barrels and get them sorted to fit the Steyr. i still fancy trying a .20 as well as the .177.

  14. #14
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    Call me old fashioned but I tend to like my barrel bores to be vageluy central to the barrel and for the rifling to have some touch of the pellet some of the way down it. Left in a warm room, after getting the pellet past the initial tight spot I've actually blown the slug out using my mouth from one of them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    Mike...you sod

    I did put it on the back burner....until i read your post.

    I think i will order a couple of barrels and get them sorted to fit the Steyr. i still fancy trying a .20 as well as the .177.
    Sorry Chris...

    back burner indeed!...more like an age thing and forgot!!

    ATB
    Mike
    HW100kt Ajst Laminate stock + Sightron s111
    HW100 barreled Steyr Lg110 + Zos
    Anchultz 8002 s2 + Sightron s111

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