Help with a BSA Standard No 2 and who could service this?

[Lakey]

I am lucky enough to own a few standards, and on the whole, they are a largely bomb proof design. They were made using exceptionally good quality steel, which means that bad wear is unusual.
The loading tap is also quite an efficient fitment that is usually pretty airtight. The loading tap on a BSA standard is secured with two screws, which hold the keyhole shaped block in place. These two screws need to be tight. There is a spring loaded plunger pushing against that plate, and if it is not absolutely tight, the tap can leak.
I wouldnt get too hung up on the tap test - with the whoosh as you describe it. Far better to make sure that you have a well lubricated leather washer in place, and a good spring (or springs, as some guns have two smaller springs in place of the one single mainspring.)
Sometimes a really good barrel clean, can both improve velocity and accuracy combined. I have occasionally discovered scored compression chambers, which can affect power, and also the main leather washer can be a bit dry, which will also have a negative affect on velocity.

BSA standards started off, with the main leather washer, and small inner washer held in place by a single flat headed screw and brass dished washer ( the large head of the screw fitting flush into the front of the dished washer), however after about 1930, the washer was held in place using a round nut, which screwed directly onto the front of the main piston shaft. These pistons were heavier and longer, and consequently a bit more power was possible.
BSA designed these guns to have the leather piston washer regularly lubricated with a few drops of oil, every few hundred shots, so I guess limited dieseling was factored into their operation. Check out Danny Garvins fabulous vintage BSA website for more info.

Regards

Lakey

[andrewM]

Thank you for that interesting message, Lakey. That was most useful information, which I have filed. I looked at the Garvin website - http://www.network54.com/Index/105071 - which is also useful.

Regards
Andrew.

[gingernut]

Pax Guns in Highgate London may still have some Defiant Pellets left.
These are modern pellets made to fit the old guns and work well.

If you lurk around gunshops and Clubs you will find chaps who can service/fix these guns.
I am lucky to have a couple of friends met like this who sort mine.

Sounds as if yours isn't actually broken and from my experience with these old guns we really should not expect great things in power or accuracy.

Nice to own and good ones are an investment.

[edbear2]

Don't stress too much about the static pressure test on the tap, I have a 1911 45 inch Sporting (basically the same as a Standard) which lets the cocking arm go forward against the tap quite quickly.......but makes 11.6 foot pounds

They take a good while to settle down after a re-seal, up to 1000 shots or more I have found unless you really faff with sanding the seal to get a light sliding fit dry...then it expands when oiled but seems to take less running in.

Pellet choice can be a tradeoff between power / accuracy and smoothness of shooting...do not use anything that makes the gun feel harsh or slammy IMHO, no matter if making power.

H+N FTT in 5.54 head size work really well and gives super long range (40-80 yards) accuracy even better than original Wasps in extensive tests I have done (In my 2 guns anyway)...But (original) Wasps are super out to 45 yards.

The sportings make the most power of any 45 inch gun due to longer stroke, Standards in good order can make 11 but most are mid 10's I have found. Spring choice makes a big difference and yours might just need a new unit / experiment...Just because a certain person has rebuilt it does not mean it has the most efficient unit, it will be whatever was in stock / to hand

Don't overthink these, you can have the back off and all the internals out in 5 mins, or a spring change in less than that.

If mine I would pull apart, check security of seal retaining the screw, try piston fit by dropping down cylinder, a full power fit will be the slightest pressure push to move it...if stiffer it needs more shooting in, and if stiffer there is more power to come so leave the fitted sping, just relube and get some lead through it and re-test after a min of 500 shots, it may well have gone up.

If seal looks good and piston moves easily, and you are desperate for more power then maybe try a replacement spring and see.

Tap wise, check end cover screws are snug, I have lost count of the guns I have seen where these are a tad loose but the indent plunger and it's spring fitted into the drilling in the tap itself normally (not always if not original) will keep the tap seated. Leaks are really really really rare...trust me.

One last thing I suppose as the tap seems to concern you, remove the cover plate and pull out the tap, check the numbers stamped on the end of the tap and compare to numbers stamped under barrel (sometimes up near cocking pivot) as taps are matched to each gun so this will confirm if original unit.


Clean out tap recess (and take the oppertunity to do a barrel clean now as well)...and if fussy you could cover the tapered part of the tap with marker pen and replace, rotate a few times in the same arc as when loading the gun whilst maintaining pressure, then pull out and inspect, this will show high spots as shiny metal through the black in the case of a foreign object or ''picking up'' which can be stoned down.

BUT...These are hand lapped taps that operate on the principle (some say inspired by originally) of the domestic / commercial tapered gas tap, which obviously needs to be a perfectly secure fit, and are the best design (if done properly) of any of the tap loaders out there and light years ahead quality and function wise of the parallel later ones which were introduced due to cost restraints.

Don't be scared of the thing, it's a glorified bike pump, have a play and you will get far more out of it than getting someone else to do these very basic tasks.

ATB, Ed

[andrewM]

Thank you, Ed and Gingernut, for your helpful guidance.

I am most envious, Ed, of your 1911 Standard - and its power. I would love to see it and, indeed, fire it. What sort of accuracy does it deliver?

I visited the expert, suggested by the gunsmith today. He made some interesting comments:

1 Lubricant: He said there was no need to introduce Weboil or any equivalent these days, into the air chamber, as all oils create dieseling to some degree or another. He gave me a small tube of 100% pure silicone oil (core-rc.com), actually used for the car racing business (and expensive at £15 for 60mls). Some three to five drops were to be introduced after every tin of pellets.

2 Tap Loader solution if leaking: he said a new tap would be expensive to buy and fit. A better alternative, he said, which will work as well, is to dismantle the tap, place tissue in the centre hole, and spray on an aerosol external chain lube, then restore the tap to its position. This lube sticks to the surface - as it would to a chain saw, and will seal the gaps 100%. As an afterthought, however, it then occurred to me that it might also seal off a section of the air from the chamber if the tap-loader rubs against the exit hole from the air chamber. I might call him next week to seek further advice on that.

3 He also mentioned that it was good practice to fire the rifle with the tap loader in the upright position as it helped to mould the piston seal to the end of the chamber.

So, no doubt, a controversial approach and I thought it worth introducing this as a new thread on this site, so others can benefit and/or debate the merits of this advice.

Meanwhile, I would prefer to have my BSA Standard inspected by an expert but, like others, I still need to find one!

Regards
Andrew.

[edbear2]

[QUOTE=andrewM;7167774]Thank you, Ed and Gingernut, for your helpful guidance.

I am most envious, Ed, of your 1911 Standard - and its power. I would love to see it and, indeed, fire it. What sort of accuracy does it deliver?

I visited the expert, suggested by the gunsmith today. He made some interesting comments:

1 Lubricant: He said there was no need to introduce Weboil or any equivalent these days, into the air chamber, as all oils create dieseling to some degree or another. He gave me a small tube of 100% pure silicone oil (core-rc.com), actually used for the car racing business (and expensive at £15 for 60mls). Some three to five drops were to be introduced after every tin of pellets.

2 Tap Loader solution if leaking: he said a new tap would be expensive to buy and fit. A better alternative, he said, which will work as well, is to dismantle the tap, place tissue in the centre hole, and spray on an aerosol external chain lube, then restore the tap to its position. This lube sticks to the surface - as it would to a chain saw, and will seal the gaps 100%. As an afterthought, however, it then occurred to me that it might also seal off a section of the air from the chamber if the tap-loader rubs against the exit hole from the air chamber. I might call him next week to seek further advice on that.

3 He also mentioned that it was good practice to fire the rifle with the tap loader in the upright position as it helped to mould the piston seal to the end of the chamber.

So, no doubt, a controversial approach and I thought it worth introducing this as a new thread on this site, so others can benefit and/or debate the merits of this advice.

Meanwhile, I would prefer to have my BSA Standard inspected by an expert but, like others, I still need to find one!

Regards
Andrew.[/QUOTE

Andrew

re. the above
1...Do not use silicon oil anywhere where it will leach onto parts and cause metal to metal contact, as it will if put into the chamber...just google silicon oil metal to metal, it is a plastic lubricant and exactly the WRONG stuff to use! (and I have been in F1 racing and aviation at the pointy end since the mid 90's so am well up on exotic lubes).

2...Total rubbish...and may even be uneeded if you follow my earlier advice you may not need to do this if you have checked the originality / fit as described.

3...I have heard of this back in the early days of ptfe washer replacements, but not for leather....You are not moulding the end of the washer, you are concerned with the sliding fit / air seal I would say not slamming the piston into the cylinder end (which is what will happen if you DO have a leaky tap...This will wreck the washer screw...believe me I have repaired enough over the years.

All the above IMHO, as I have said your gun may be fine and just need 1/2 and a fiddle to establish the problem...Have you tried various pellets to establish the 8 pound output as various types can make over 1 pound difference, happy to send you a few original Wasps and FTT's to get a benchmark as normally these are the ones that perform the best through the chrono.

ATB, ED

[andrewM]

Thank you, Ed, for this valuable intervention. I have posted it on the other thread, too, so readers can benefit from your insights. It is as well that I raised the advice I received from the gunsmith here first and did not act on it.

I have checked the screws to the plate alongside the loading tap and they are tight.

I cleaned the barrel with a .22 cleaning rod sometime ago (with the loading tap up).

Yes, I have tried various pellets and still have some old Eley Wasps. It read 479 ft/sec today.

My practical abilities and lack of tools are such that I will not strip the weapon although I could open the loading tap, as that is quite simple.

Thank you for your advice - much appreciated.
A