Reply With QuoteYes I only buy boxed ones and you can select the die on the boxes as well.
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Are the boxed Crossman Premier's still considered better than the same in tins?
Does this apply to .177 and .22?
Anyone know why? Do they really use different dies depending on the packaging???
Cheers!
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Yes I only buy boxed ones and you can select the die on the boxes as well.
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So the boxed pellets come from one die and the tins are a mix from different dies?
Are the boxes marked with a die number or a date of manufacture?
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Some of the tinned ones are s##t. Open them and get a look if you can first.
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Yes they are normally A,B,C or D and the year made.Originally Posted by RichardinDorset
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I only shoot .177 cal and boxed Crosman Premiers in a box all come from the same die and production run.
On the other hand the "CPs in the tin" are from from various dies that have worn past their production tolerances.
I do know that from my R9 and HW95 the CPs from the die lot marked and dated 1250 count boxes fit the leade more consistently than CPs from the tin and are more accurate from my HW springers.
You asked if the boxed CPs are "better" than the CPs from the tin and I guess I have to mention that it depends on if I'm shooting them from my HW95 or Beeman R9. My R9 has a considerably looser leade than my HW95 and the large headed CPL from the box fit better and are more accurate than the "tinned" CP. Contrary to this the leade of my newer HW95 is considerably tighter than the R9 and as such will shoot both pellets with similar accuracy, the "fly in the ointment" with CPLs in the HW95 is the fact that the consistently larger heads of the boxed versions do lead to a "sore loading finger" after a long shooting session.
Actually, due to shooting both tinned and boxed .177 CPs from my HW95 & R9 I'm forming an unscientific opinion that the actual 1/100th mm pellet head dimension doesn't matter too much as long as the pellet head is large enough to be "swaged to size" when pressed in the leade. The issue comes when one pellet has a small head and doesn't get "sized" in the leade and is shot, then followed by a pellet with a larger head and does get "sized" when loading.
Personally, it all depends on the individual gun/barrel if the boxed CPs perform better than the "tinned" CPs.
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Yes I only buy boxed ones and you can select the die on the boxes as well.
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/sou...LJune92015.JPG
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If you are talking 0.177 ...
I'm pretty sure that you can't get 0.177 Crosman Premier domed style pellets in 7.9gr in tins. Only in 1250 quantity in boxes.
You can get in tins ...
Crosman Premier Flat Head
Crosman Premier Hollow Point
Crosman Premier Pointed
Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 10.5gr ( heavies )
Crosman Domed 7.9gr
... but not the original Crosman Premier 7.9gr domed pellets. They come in boxes of 1250.
So they've used the term 'Premier' on several types there ... but they aren't what the old school target men used to consider as Crosman Premier pellets in 0.177. The ones that are actually 7.9gr and have domed heads ( like the Crosman Prem 7.9gr domed head pellets in the boxes ) don't have the term ' Premier ' on the tin ... just Crosman Domed.
In the ones that I have had ...
The boxed Premier 7.9gr are huge. Tight in every barrel.
The tinned Crosman Domed 7.9gr ( which look like exactly the same pellet ) are tiny and fall into some barrels.
I did try some tinned ( tiny ) Crosman Domed through a HW77 that I had set up to about 11.3fp with 8.44gr JSB pellets. The tiny Crosman Domed 7.9gr went through at about 860fps. Do the maths. I didn't weigh them. They are so noticeably smaller than the boxed Crosman Premier Domed 7.9gr pellets that I presume they can't be 7.9gr. So the real weight may mean at 860fps they are still legal. Hmmm ... probably not as the weight would have to much lower for 860fps to be under 12fp.
Loads of history about the Crosman range.
The old story was that the original Crosman Premier Domed 7.9gr ( that everyone used for FT back in the 90's ... everyone searched for Die 2 ... The Holy Grail ) were produced from a single Die. So they should be consistent. These were sold in boxes of 1250. The story went on that the ones swept up off the floor ( not literally ... but ones from mixed worn out Dies ) were tinned in 500 and flogged as Accupell.
Webley then stuck their noses in and wanted to flog USA made domed pellets from that factory, and bought out the name 'Accupell'. These are flogged as Webley Accupell. To completely fry your head Webley also flog Webley Accupell FT ... which are made in Germany by H&N and are H&N Field Target Trophy 8.64gr.
So Crosman flogged the 7.9gr domed pellets in tins of 500 as Crosman Domed 7.9gr. I'm not saying these are the same as Webley Accupell as they are really tiny head size in my experience, so maybe they are the ones of a lower quality than Webley Accupell.
If you have a really tight barrel then maybe they will go well in it. If you have a tight ( usually German ) barrel and use the boxed ( huge ) Crosman Premier Domed 7.9gr ... you'll struggle get them in the breech ( hence sore thumb in above post ).
Re consistency ... The boxed Crosman Premier Domed 7.9gr pellets I have do have a wide range of head sizes when measured. I use them in slack bored rifles and I find that if I reject the smaller sized head ones and stick to the larger head sized ones they go really well.
Last edited by bozzer; 14-01-2017 at 08:32 AM.
Warning! Flammable
I buy Accupell in tins which are uniformly good in .177 and .22.
You can spend thousands and still miss a barn door or spend just enough and enjoy yourself. If you haven't got the talent to start with a million pound won't fix it. Whippet, Russell, a few bang sticks and a flat cap.http://www.smart-tech1st.co.uk
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What Bozzer said
Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.
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HI,i only buy boxed ones 7.9gr my wolverine loves them tryed the tins once as i got flyer ,and with the boxed Crosman Premier domed pellets in 7.9gr what a flat trajectory you get, ATB bob.
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Anyone actually measured the head size on the boxed .22 prems?
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Years ago in 2002 Crosman had some major QC issues with their die #5 lots. In one 1250 count box I had 140ish undersized pellets and even a couple dozen the were "free fallers" through the bore. Crosman did tighten up their QC issues and I haven't had any issues since. I currently shoot from a stash of die stamp B but it is interesting that the die lot stamps went from numbers, to letters starting with "A" through "D", however the last 3 cases I bought are die stamped "B" again.
A couple seasons ago I bought a case of 7.9 grain CPs and found that they has excess parting compound on them and my loading fingers were dark gray after a shooting session. Washing the CPs did solve the "dark gray finger" issue but I felt the washing & lubing of the CPs to be enough of an issue that I tried the H&N FTTs and found an extreme variation in pellet head size from the same tin (measured .005" variation) and had a lot of unexplained fliers from my rather loose bore .177 R9. Next I bough some tins of supposedly 4.52mm JSB Exacts and found that they were VERY loose fitters in my R9 leade. Matter of fact, I had two dry fires at a field target match using the Exacts and would have had a third if I didn't notice the loose pellet flipping out of the leads when relatching the barrel. That started a several thousand pellet head measuring marathon where I found that both the supposedly 4.52mm JSB Exacts and H&N FTTs had a much larger variation in head size than the "dirty" CPLs I had. After that FT match I determined to revert back to the CPLs and wash then lube if necessary. I was delighted that the next case of die stamp "B" I ordered didn't contain excess parting compound so I ordered several more cases of "B"s to carry me through the season.
Matter of fact I even made a pellet sizer to reduce the 4.54mm CPL head size to 4.52mm for use with my tight leade HW95 and it "rounds out" the pellet skirt as well as sizing the head ......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/CPLsizer2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../CPLsizer1.jpg
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/sou...alibration.jpg
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/sou...letMeasure.jpg
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/sou...elletSize2.jpg
While I've measured a few die lot "B" CPLs from the box that were 4.52mm, the vast majority were 4.54mm to 4.55mm which explained the nice snug fit in th eleade of my older .177 R9 and the tight fit in the smaller leade of my newer HW95. Some pellet measuring pics of pellets supposedly 4.52mm....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/wved/Pellets/PAexactLabel.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...letSort2_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...PelletTins.jpg
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So are the 7.9grn prefered over the 10.4grn boxed CP's?
(In an HW100)?
The boxes (on jsr's site) don't show any difference, other than weight, but are the heavier pellets actually Ultra Magnums?
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Depending on the gun, the .177 "heavies" can be more accurate, however they do reduce spring life considerably. Here are a couple 50 yard groups my brother shot years ago when I sold him my home tuned .177 R9..
http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/sou...enryTarget.jpg
He was shooting the normal 3 shot "powder burner" groups instead of the normal 5 shot pellet gun groups (normal in the US) but I thought two 3 shot groups at one sitting was commensurate to one 5 shot group.
Concerning the "reduced spring life" comment........
Whatever the reason, I do know that the spring of a .177 R9 shooting 10.5 grain pellets has a shorter life than it does shooting 7.9 grain pellets when shot at 14.5ish fpe, however I don't know if the same applies to the "UK legal power limit".
This was proven to me years ago when my brother only shot 10.5 grain CPH from his R9 and I used to replace a good aftermarket spring about every two seasons (about 15,000 shots). At that time both my brother and I living in West Virginia were each shooting a box of CPs per month except for the slower winter months. After a few years he found that the flatter trajectory of the 7.9 grain CPL trumped the greater resistance to cross winds of the "heavies" for squirrel hunting in the woods so he switched to the 7.9 grainers. After the switch to 7.9 grain pellets I only replaced one good aftermarket spring and that spring spent "half of it's life" shooting the 10.5 grainers.
I personally believe that the issue is "piston rebound" from the high pressure air column before the heavier pellet "pops the leade". The piston is rebounding at the same time the rear spring coils are still surging forward and the "clash" between the front coils in the piston surging rearward and the rear coils surging forward creates unusually high stress concentrated on only a couple coils.
I've read that some guns made with large gage wire like the R1 aren't as affected by piston rebound as the smaller gage wire of the R9 and I've also read that the springs of guns with calibers larger than .177 aren't as prone to spring failure. This is only what I've read and have no personal experience with long term .20/.22 pellet shooting.
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