Pellet fussiness constantly surprises me!

[Rapidnick]

Earlier today I was zeroing a rifle with a new barrel. It was a legal limit .177 regulated Rapid fitted with a 10" barrel with fixed moderator. I knew from previous tests that this barrel was pretty good. My store of pellets isn't huge in terms of variety as I have found that certain makes suit my rifles pretty well so I have taken the opportunity to buy them in reasonable quantities.. The pellets tested for selection were JSB Exact 8.4 grain (with both 4.51 and 4.52 head size as I inherited a few 4.51 a while ago), H & N FTT 8.6 grain and Baracuda Match 10.6 grain. All of these pellets were straight from the tin. When using short barrels I am 'realistic' in the sort of performance I expect. The rifle is a pure hunting tool and I really don't expect match accuracy from it. My home range is 30 metres which is the range over which I zero from a bench rested position.
The JSB is usually my 'go to' pellet in .177 and it performed pretty well as expected with no difference in performance between the head sizes. Grouping was pretty reasonable at around 3/4" for 5 shots taken without massive care. Next up for test was the FTT which seems to perform well in every Weihrauch springer I own and are actually 'there or thereabouts' in every rifle I own. I was pretty surprised as the group looked like a shotgun had been at work with the group being over 2". OK I didn't clean the barrel between testing so a little bit more spread was expected but nowhere near what I actually experienced. Candidly I was a bit shocked at how bad the group was. Finally I shot off the Baracuda Match which interestingly (I assume) has the same lead alloy mix as the FTT as they are both made by H & N. The results were easily the best producing a usefully tighter group of around 1/2" which from such a compact rig I found very satisfactory. The only question I have is 'why did the FTT perform so poorly?' They are quality pellets from a quality manufacturer and in all my other rifles are 'there or thereabouts' with the best pellet.
Life is full of surprises.

[oldskoolzzz]

Few weeks back I had an interesting conversation with a chap down our club who had been shooting FTT through his rapid (.22) for many many years and swore they were the best pellet for his rig by far even better than JSB's

Recently though certainly within the last 12-18 months he discovered that the FTT for whatever reason had suddenly become quite poor and his groups had opened up considerably causing him to look into why.

Long story short after usual head scratching barrel cleaning rig setup etc his conclusion was those FTT pellets and had they suddenly changed them? although he couldn't put his finger on why that would be it is now shooting JSB again which are providing him with his tightest groups.

I haven't personally tried FTT recently, probably a few years ago now but back then they used to be fairly good in my old rapid although from memory they had to be biggish heads 5.53 5.54 sizes for the tightest groups.

[oldskoolzzz]

Just remembered I think he also said something about the FTT being a different weight compared to earlier versions

[Artfull-Bodger]

It will come down to production batches, the .22 FTT's I have here are supposed to be 14.66 grain yet they are all in the 14.9-15.2 grain range, which is damn good for production consistency even if they are a bit overweight!

[RobF]

i'd say something is up if 1/2" 5 shot groups are the best you can get, even a tx200 HC will outshine that.

[Sv rider]

I've never really bothered with h&n ftt but I bought a tin in 177. but when I tried them in my tx some were tight fit in the barrel while some were slack yet all came out of the same tin.I put it down to a bad batch after all everyone raves about them

[Shed tuner]

i'd say something is up if 1/2" 5 shot groups are the best you can get, even a tx200 HC will outshine that.

My tatty airsporter manages that

to be fair though, if that's outside, with a little breeze, and the range is somewhat exposed, it's not so bad...

[Rapidnick]

I've never really bothered with h&n ftt but I bought a tin in 177. but when I tried them in my tx some were tight fit in the barrel while some were slack yet all came out of the same tin.I put it down to a bad batch after all everyone raves about them

I think you may well be right. I have found tins of H & N .20 FTT pellets to contain .22 as well. Clearly H & N need to improve their quality control. Thankfully the Baracuda Match I use are quite old and are from unopened tins which have been properly stored. I also have a good supply of them so I don't have to worry about buying them from current production.

This means I can devote all my shooting time to improving my lamentable lack of skill.

[Rapidnick]

i'd say something is up if 1/2" 5 shot groups are the best you can get, even a tx200 HC will outshine that.

Thank you for your contribution. I'm sure you are right. I'm not a particularly good shot preferring to define myself as 'better than most at my club but not as good as some'. That is why I stressed in my thread starter that I set this rifle up to be a 'compact hunting tool' and not a match rifle. If ever I wanted to move into competitive shooting-which I don't-I have a longer barrel to use which gives single hole groups also with Baracuda Match pellets.

[RobF]

Thank you for your contribution. I'm sure you are right. I'm not a particularly good shot preferring to define myself as 'better than most at my club but not as good as some'. That is why I stressed in my thread starter that I set this rifle up to be a 'compact hunting tool' and not a match rifle. If ever I wanted to move into competitive shooting-which I don't-I have a longer barrel to use which gives single hole groups also with Baracuda Match pellets.

Hmm I'm not even sure it's ok for that. Why hunt with something that's not accurate?

The point was the thread was about pellet fussiness. All it's showing is that some pellets are running better than others. That's not pellet fussiness or news either.

Accuracy is not determined only by barrel length which is why I refered to the tx200hc which would group better. That's also a compact rifle with a short barrel.

[32:1]

Ive played around with pellet tests for ages, just for fun really and to see what all the fuss was about pellet X versus pellet Y and was lead to believe from others and my unscientific tests that head size seemed to be the key, in fact it can help but on a recent trip to the range with my new s400 I bumped into a guy testing his stuff and he obviously knew far more than me, just going on the amount of samples he had for the day. Anyway I found with his help THE perfect pellet for my setup and it was in three sizes ?

I carried out a test using 10 tins of jsb exacts all 4.52mm but all different die/batch numbers, each pellet group varied slightly and once Id found the best, he then gave me 20 more in that die number but 10 in 4.51 & 10 in 4.53, the result was near exact group size in all three head sizes, change the die number and the group varies much more. Also looking at each die/pellet you can see the changes, some have thick skirts some wafer thin, some have deep rear recess some quite full, some have lines from the die/press some silky smooth.

This is why the canny buy sleeves and sleeves of their favourites, returning to a shop 3 weeks later for another tin that seemed OK may well results in a pellet that sucks !

On another interesting note, I had a few barrels worked on by a guy to remove the chokes completely and those barrels shoot awesome and are far less pellet fussy than any 'choked' barrels I own, so theres plenty going on inside that little tube that spits our pellets out ?


Chris

[Rapidnick]

Hmm I'm not even sure it's ok for that. Why hunt with something that's not accurate?

The point was the thread was about pellet fussiness. All it's showing is that some pellets are running better than others. That's not pellet fussiness or news either.

Accuracy is not determined only by barrel length which is why I refered to the tx200hc which would group better. That's also a compact rifle with a short barrel.

Rob surely a 1/4" group demonstrates more than adequate accuracy for humane hunting?
As for the difference between my rifle and the TX is one is a springer where barrel length and choke is nowhere near as important and a precharge where they are.

[DJP]

I've never really bothered with h&n ftt but I bought a tin in 177. but when I tried them in my tx some were tight fit in the barrel while some were slack yet all came out of the same tin.I put it down to a bad batch after all everyone raves about them

Some years ago I weighed some .22 FTT on a lab scale.

I can't remember the exact figures but there was a variation of almost a whole grain across the tin!

But oddly enough, they still grouped OK (or at least they did at 25yards).

[rgc_swanseaARC]

I feel your pain.

I am on my 3rd barrel on my TTR (shortened to 14 inch)
I had one particular barrel that was an absolute laser with Baracuda Match (extra heavy, gold lid). It shot normal "new" Baracuda Match and Magnums pretty well (4.51) but the older tin was awesome.
It too shot ok with FTT but useless with most other pellets...particularly hated jsb.

I was at the time doing more target/paper work so wanted something lighter. 2x barrels later i now have one that is very good with jsb express (17 shot mag all through an enlarging hole) I am still testing jsb exact in 4.50 and 4.51 as it doesnt like 4.52 very much in the exacts so it really can be hit and miss...so to speak.

If you are like me and want to get the ultimate performance out of the barrel you end up with a ton of pellets. If there is anything you would like to try, let me know, im sure i probably have some

Regards,
Rhys

[Brian.Samson]

The head size on the sticker on the bottom of the tin bares no relation to the actual head size of the contents of the tin.

4.51's are very often a larger head size than 4.53's on average.

Saying that your gun prefers one head size over another is a bit like saying "My gun only likes pellets I've bought on a Thursday" - it really is that meaningless.
What you're finding is that your gun prefers one batch of pellets to another batch of pellets, and that's not at all surprising.

When you consider that the die numbers for JSB Exacts run up to die 59 (so potentially 59 different pellet designs) and when you couple that with the fact that they use at least 4 different skirt insert profiles for those 59 dies of pellets (batch dependant). What you get is almost 240 different pellet profiles - and that's from a pellet that people seem to wrongly assume is the same pellet because the label on the front is the same.

When you find a batch of pellets that works well in your gun - buy as many of that exact same batch as you can afford.