Vintage Spring rifles vs Pumpers

[45flint]

I started air gunning as a adult 25 years ago with a Beeman R1 spring rifle. A awesomely built German gun. Always thought we Americans had it all wrong with our pumpers, 10 pumps vs 1 etc. Well got my first vintage Crosman pumper a couple of weeks ago and have changed my mind a bit.

1. As a retired guy in the winter, in home gallery type shooting is what I can do. My spring powered vintage pistols are fine for this, low enough power. But the R1 isn't a house toy really. The advantage of the pumper is variable power. Two pumps and it's a awesome gallery gun.

2. These rifles tend to be very compact. Again gallery gun friendly

3. No recoil makes them much easier to shoot. No issue with did I get the hold right. Naturally good shooters.

4. Can be dry fired.

5. Cheap in the vintage market, under appreciated or they just made too many of them.

[slow_runner]

I guess it is horses for courses Flint.
Pump-ups? My preference is for a spring (with wood stocks) as I cannot be bothered with all that work-out preparation before shooting
I have used a friends Sharp and they are very accurate, quiet and I for those reasons I would have one myself if I could only lay my hands on a good one within my budget.
I have a couple of FEG's and a nice model 22 that suit indoor, although, if you want quiet shooting it is maybe not the answer.
There is always a radio at volume or the the 1812 overture to fool the neighbours

[Garvin]

Yes, it comes down to preference. Do you want the hassle of pumping but with no recoil, or the simplicity of a spring gun but with (some) recoil? As a collector, it's probably the lack of old school quality pump-ups available in the UK that has pushed me towards vintage springers, but if like you I had a choice of finding prewar Crosmans etc at reasonable prices, I may feel differently.

I think the above conundrum is why I have been so keen on match springers from the '60s and '70s - because they combine old school quality with recoillessness, and so I have a settled view on the semi-recoilless FWB springers (pistol and rifle, plus equivalents from other manufacturers, such as the Diana Giss guns) as being the perfect indoor airguns.

[Lumberjack]

First up, I don't shoot indoors: I find the pellets often hit the chandeliers in the ballroom and end up in the swimming pool.

That said, I do have a soft spot for little Crosman pumpers and I'm sure there are many others on here who appreciate multi pumps.

As has been noted, lightweight, no recoil, variable power, accurate with a rifled barrel and (for the most part) relatively inexpensive.

There must have been a shed load made over the years and while most are abused and end up in the bin there are still lots out there that are regularly used and enjoyed. Just look at how many citizens of your own country have bought them.

I'd happily have a Benjy 397 or 392 if they were readily available - always regret not picking one up when I was younger.

Quality and reliability wise though I would have to award the points to the steel and wood, single shot, 'boinger' brigade.

[grieva]

Had all kinds of guns in my time,after the usual Milbro's bought a Kay's catalogue Relum tornado,but always envied the American pumpers etc advertised on the rear pages of 60's American comics just something to look at, had no idea how to buy one....Had quite a few over the years my favorite pumpers being the Silver and Blue streaks,perfect size pellets great to shoot,light weight,accurate and good exercise,what more could anyone want (and then came girls,but that's another story).

[Geezer]

I agree with all of you.

The pumpers are nice, accurate and quiet with 2-3 pumps. Which isn't a hassle. And they are light and compact. I can't imagine shooting much indoors with 45flint's US-spec 18-20 ft/lbs HW80/R1.

Old match guns are lovely, especially if you have 10M to shoot over, because is exactly the right distance for them.

And there's another really good option. The high-quality low to mid power springer. Diana 24/25/26/27. HW30, 50. That kind of thing. Easy to cock, easy to handle, quiet, and accurate with good firing manners.

[Clanchief]

I think you are comparing extremes of the Airgun range, American springer are a good deal more powerful than ours and a R1 at that compared to a kinda bb/ gallery gun.

The pump up is more suited to back yard or inside though not the most accurate compared to what could be available.

I shoot along the hall of the minstrels gallery in my house with a FWB300s which is a low powered springer and is a pleasure to shoot, I could not imagine gallery style shooting with a fac style springer and enjoy it much.

Do you watch American Airgunner on TV on the Pursuit Channel, they show a few US available airguns more up to date and a bit sweeter to shoot than a R1

[Airsporterman]

They never made an Airsporter pumper!
(or I would have had one!)
ASM

[smallholder1]

I like my spring guns hw35e fwb 124 and my latest a Diana mauser but also like my USA pump ups well made accurate and plenty of power

[45flint]

Yes, it comes down to preference. Do you want the hassle of pumping but with no recoil, or the simplicity of a spring gun but with (some) recoil? As a collector, it's probably the lack of old school quality pump-ups available in the UK that has pushed me towards vintage springers, but if like you I had a choice of finding prewar Crosmans etc at reasonable prices, I may feel differently.

I think the above conundrum is why I have been so keen on match springers from the '60s and '70s - because they combine old school quality with recoillessness, and so I have a settled view on the semi-recoilless FWB springers (pistol and rifle, plus equivalents from other manufacturers, such as the Diana Giss guns) as being the perfect indoor airguns.

I first discovered airguns through Dr. Beeman, never had a pumper and was totally of a mindset that pumping is such a hassle a one 30 lb pull was the best answer. But this little pumper has been a hoot. One thing I was not prepared for was 2-3 short pumps are less hassle than a hard, one. Pumpers build pressure quickly. The last 5 pumps build it by very small increments. Bottom line it is just "fun" I think cause it such a small light carbine (35 inches and thin) with a 20 round mag. Also an innately accurate rifle.

I have a FWB 65 awesome piece of machinery, the 300 equivalent, looks like a big gun. Reality I have been pouring pellets through this little carbine, test will be when it warms up and I'm outside again.

On the Giss I have stayed away, as every one I have seen for sale needs resealed, and I have heard resealing these aren't for the faint of heart.

[Geezer]

I first discovered airguns through Dr. Beeman, never had a pumper and was totally of a mindset that pumping is such a hassle a one 30 lb pull was the best answer. But this little pumper has been a hoot. One thing I was not prepared for was 2-3 short pumps are less hassle than a hard, one. Pumpers build pressure quickly. The last 5 pumps build it by very small increments. Bottom line it is just "fun" I think cause it such a small light carbine with a 20 round mag. Also an innately accurate rifle.

I have a FWB 65 awesome piece of machinery, the 300 equivalent, looks like a big gun. Reality I have been pouring pellets through this little carbine, test will be when it warms up and I'm outside again.

On the Giss I have stayed away, as every one I have seen for sale needs resealed, and I have heard resealing these aren't for the faint of heart.

Two things. First, the late Bob Beeman is both a bit of an airgun hero but also a salesman. So he had a vested interest in hyping his imported mostly German springers over much cheaper US-made pumpers. He was right, but he sold it very heavily (hype).

Second, the Giss system Dianas are hard to fix. But, once fixed, they are fine and run for ages.

[Drew451]

There are two American pump ups for sale in dealer local to me. Either Benjamin's or Sheridans- I don't recall which. Handsome and handy looking but they were pretty hard work around the 6 or 7 strokes mark. Surprisingly quiet when dry fired after 7 though. However, 3 pumps for 10m work with open sights would be fine, I think. Quite appealing but I've resisted so far.

I do a fair bit of indoor gallery type shooting. Favourite fun for this is the Haenel 311. Pellet firing cousin to the true gallery gun- the 310.

[Benelli B76]

As I am most impressed by having superb trigger action and amazing accuracy I would go for the Original Giss springers every time. You know if you cannot hit your target every time it is not the fault of the pistol/rifle. I have re-sealed quite a few 6's and it becomes old hat and simple.The 10 and 66 rifle are a little more difficult due to trigger parts, but then again it is a job you may have to do only once in the period of ownership.

Baz

[SRV1]

Mmmm...Lumberjack, I have the same problem, but, the house staff always do a good job of tidying up and repairing afterwards.......They have their moans when it comes to digging out pellets from the furniture and door frames, but they are paid well.....

[Abasmajor]

Hi,

Slightly off thread but here goes.....

I shoot mainly classic, spring powered air pistols, but also have a selection of PCP, Co2 and 'pumpers'. Although I prefer the much livelier recoil characteristics of the 'springers' which provide something nearer to the feel of live firing pistols, I can't deny that they are much harder to shoot with consistent accuracy. Having said that, you could argue that 'springers' are a also bit more satisfying to shoot when you do get it right.

Finally, if Crosman had ever managed to produce the extremely elegant 105 model as a single stroke pneumatic with similar performance to say the FAS 604 it would undoubtedly be an even more classic pistol than it is already.

Regard

Brian