Latest article... Bedford's Eureka...

[Garvin]

I suppose we shouldn't view all this 19th century American activity through a 'proper', law-abiding 21st century British prism. It sounds like the Wild West out there at the time and that they were little better than snake oil salesmen when it came to the exact truth of what they were selling!

Mind you, the British airgun sellers in the 1920s and '30s were not exactly transparent when it came to rebadging German 'grey' imports as their own, and making great power claims for their less-than-impressive products...

[JimmieDee]

Hello John. Great discussion. I tend to agree with you and Danny.

With regards to Bedford and the Quackenbush pistol, he did at least stamp them as made by him and at his 45 High Street address. Unless perhaps Quackenbush stamped them for him. But that would seem strange.

[ccdjg]

Yes, I suspect that Quackenbush provided him with the castings and Bedford may have made the smaller components and assembled the pistols in his workshop, which would have justified him marking the guns the way he did. There is no reason why Quackenbush would have objected to this.

Casting iron and steel was a highly specialised process back then, and Quackenbush had invested in and become proficient in this so it makes sense that the smaller airgun makers, like Bedford, Johnson & Bye, and Pope would have cooperated with Quackenbush in this way. The fact that the Quackenbush and Bedford rifle-air pistols have identical frames supports their originating from the same foundry. (We are of course talking about the Quackenbush-patented rifle air pistol here, not the Pope version, in case anyone is a bit confused.)

[JimmieDee]

If that were to be true, it would imply that Quackenbush may also have provided castings for the Eureka as the shape is so similar to the Quackenbush. Also, I've seen stampings in a cast Bedford Quackenbush pistol where the stamp could only have been made at the time of the casting. It seems odd that Quackenbush would stamp his own creation as made by Bedford. Still, we don't actually know either way. We know that Bedford had at least sold machine tools from his business in Devonshire Street. Maybe he also made iron castings.

[ccdjg]

It is largely speculation of course but it would not surprise me if Quackenbush was involved in providing castings for all these pistols of the 1870-80's period, the Pope, Champion, Eureka, Carey and Cross, as they are interconnected in so many ways.
Certainly the people involved all knew one another. When Bedford moved to Quackenbush's factory the Eureka continued to be made there for a few years, which would be a sensible business decision if the castings were already being made there.

I have never come across a Bedford rifle-air air pistol with cast lettering, as they usually have very small stamped lettering exactly the same size as on the Quackenbush version, and in the same location on the frame. What was the nature of the lettering on the example you have seen?

Unfortunately John Groenwald's book sheds no light on these questions so there is still a lot of research to be done, which I suppose is what makes this field so fascinating for collectors.

[JimmieDee]

It is largely speculation of course but it would not surprise me if Quackenbush was involved in providing castings for all these pistols of the 1870-80's period, the Pope, Champion, Eureka, Carey and Cross, as they are interconnected in so many ways.
Certainly the people involved all knew one another. When Bedford moved to Quackenbush's factory the Eureka continued to be made there for a few years, which would be a sensible business decision if the castings were already being made there.

I have never come across a Bedford rifle-air air pistol with cast lettering, as they usually have very small stamped lettering exactly the same size as on the Quackenbush version, and in the same location on the frame. What was the nature of the lettering on the example you have seen?

Unfortunately John Groenwald's book sheds no light on these questions so there is still a lot of research to be done, which I suppose is what makes this field so fascinating for collectors.

I received images from Bruce Stauff of a Bedford (Quackenbush) which has the lettering cast into it. I'll send you a copy via email...

[JimmieDee]

I received images from Bruce Stauff of a Bedford (Quackenbush) which has the lettering cast into it. I'll send you a copy via email...

Actually, now that I've looked at them again they can't be part of the casting as they are too fine. I suspect the body was milled flat, then stamped, then enamelled.