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Thread: Shock at Holts auction charges

  1. #16
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullbarrel View Post
    I think we see enough fraud on here to know that sadly won't work. Let alone the arguments over condition etc.
    With the appropriate safeguards used by *Bay and eGun, such as required registration, use of feedback profiles, it need not be any riskier than *Bay . As far as arguments over condition go, would you trust Holt's or any other conventional auction house to give an accurate description of a lot if you were unable to attend a viewing? I have had a few let downs in my time, certainly more than I have had from eGun.

  2. #17
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    So, in short, if you sell an item through Holts, then you can expect half of that paid overall by the buyer. Not good really unless as has been stated, you have something ultra desirable which sells for way above established norms?

  3. #18
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    i know that a lot of folk don't like holts and their charges/costs to buy and sell but nothing is hidden,they have a ready reckoner on the lot listing to see the total amount payable,
    if somebody has a nice collectable item for sale why not ask what they want for the piece and sell on here,i am sure it will find it's value with no commissions and safe delivery.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    With the appropriate safeguards used by *Bay and eGun, such as required registration, use of feedback profiles, it need not be any riskier than *Bay . As far as arguments over condition go, would you trust Holt's or any other conventional auction house to give an accurate description of a lot if you were unable to attend a viewing? I have had a few let downs in my time, certainly more than I have had from eGun.
    I would agree with the above having examined quite a few items at Holts which were either not exactly as described or did not live up to the standard portrayed in the accompanying, glossy photographs.

    I would also be a bit worried as a seller having seen some rare and quite expensive items being handled with little care or respect by people with only a casual interest and obviously no intention of placing a bid.

    Regards

    Brian
    Last edited by Abasmajor; 18-01-2017 at 06:03 PM.

  5. #20
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    Holts give a great service and have to charge for it. Many people find themselves with a gun and have no idea how to dispose of it. Some just hand it to the police for destruction. Holts has it uses.
    Their terms are clear, don't liky don't usey. I've had good luck on the whole when buying from auction houses; just do your calculations and don't overbid. Never buy without viewing. Auction contract is very different to any other selling/buying; the hammer is a contract.

    Have rare gun and can't find a buyer? Then Holts or one of the other auction houses will for a price. You can't find a buyer, they will or at least give it a go. Sometimes their market will pay way more than you ever thought possible.

    No one is forcing you to use them. I say good luck to them.

  6. #21
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    Personally, when buying, I prefer the auctions that do not have internet bidding as, in my opinion, its use has tended to push prices up as you get more bidders. Selfish? Of course it is but I prefer less competition.....
    I have never sold via Holts but have bought from their Sealed Bid auction; got a couple of real bargains as well, even allowing for the commission on buying.
    And beware: VAT is usually only payable on the buyers commission but, and a big but, if you buy a product that has come straight from a dealer and is classed as 'new' (i.e. had not been sold by the dealer and is not s/h) then you pay VAT on the hammer price, plus, of course the VAT on the commission. Auction houses should make you aware of this before bidding starts.
    Cheers, Phil

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    I say good luck to them.
    Well I don't. They are a necessary evil and obviously we don't have to use them.

    I'd wish them luck if their commissions came down to reflect lower marketing costs or if, for instance, they 'shared risk' by having a sliding scale - so if guns sell well the commission is x and if they don't, the commission is x-1.

    I won't be using Holts again as a seller at least - I did so only because I had to and, like Mac, I was disappointed by the huge amount they extracted from my sales. If they had sold for high prices, I may feel differently, but they didn't.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
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    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  8. #23
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    I rarely if ever use auction houses to sell my stuff; agreed commission rates are massive. Even gun shops only charge 20% on commission based sales, some will do even less than that.

    In the old days it was 10% each way, but those rates are long gone. Heck, as a seller you could do a deal, some might still do one.

    Its a business.
    How much fart arsing about do they have to do on a £100 gun; too much probably. London auction house overheads are to high to touch air rifles on the whole. When they do its because of what else was handed in to sell.

    Its fun, just don't go burning your fingers.

  9. #24
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    when holts say 'their' london saleroom they are being a bit cheeky,it's an air cadet hall which is hired by many organisations.

  10. #25
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    If someone inherited centre fires or, shotguns that were of value, for a lot of people Holts would be the place to call. They will arrange collection and the problem goes away. Selling sub 12ft lb air rifles and posting them is legal in the UK, I can't see a reason for using them, unless out of convenience and that has a cost.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin bingham View Post
    when holts say 'their' london saleroom they are being a bit cheeky,it's an air cadet hall which is hired by many organisations.
    And which brings back happy memories of being a 17-year Flight Sergeant Geezer.

  12. #27
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    A sporting friend takes the photos for the catalogue and spends a day or two getting everything together. He says they may stop doing it if turnover drops below a certain amount. Can't remember the exact amount but seem to remember it was about a half a million a month which I thought was a substantial amount. Perhaps they have to pay out more than we assume it costs.
    She was only an Admiral's daughter but her naval base was full of discharged seamen.

  13. #28
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    A provincial auction house may have ten people working for it in some capacity. Taking base £2k each a month just on salaries, plus rent, rates, and the rest, then they need to make £40k min a month, probably a lot more. All from two to three sales a month. That requires a thousand lot commissions of at least £40 a time. Some lots make more some not even that; and some don't sell.

    The big players have lots worth big sums, millions even. The little boys don't. A £200 air rifle is break even towards the lot commission pot. Its a service for those who want it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolkngood View Post
    A sporting friend takes the photos for the catalogue and spends a day or two getting everything together. He says they may stop doing it if turnover drops below a certain amount. Can't remember the exact amount but seem to remember it was about a half a million a month which I thought was a substantial amount. Perhaps they have to pay out more than we assume it costs.
    Do you mean stop doing the paper catalogue or have they abandoned that already?
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  15. #30
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    No, stop doing auctions altogether if the turnover is less than half a million, but looking at it I think the figure quoted was a million. Just had a look and their turnover is 6 million a year with four auctions so 1 1/2 million per auction if they only rely on those and have no other form of income.
    She was only an Admiral's daughter but her naval base was full of discharged seamen.

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