Shock at Holts auction charges

[Garvin]

No, stop doing auctions altogether if the turnover is less than half a million, but looking at it I think the figure quoted was a million. Just had a look and their turnover is 6 million a year with four auctions so 1 1/2 million per auction if they only rely on those and have no other form of income.

Interesting, thanks. Presumably that doesn't include the sealed bids auctions?

I suppose they generate less income anyway as most of the guns in sealed bids are of lesser quality, although I see Holts now sell off unsold lots via the website for a fixed price inc Vat and commission, based on the lower end of the estimate.

This must help keep overheads lower and shift hard-to-sell stock, although it's not so good for the seller...

[Garvin]

A £200 air rifle is break even towards the lot commission pot. Its a service for those who want it.

With all due respect I very much doubt that is true and you can't possibly know that in relation to Holts.

[Norfolkngood]

Interesting, thanks. Presumably that doesn't include the sealed bids auctions?

I suppose they generate less income anyway as most of the guns in sealed bids are of lesser quality, although I see Holts now sell off unsold lots via the website for a fixed price inc Vat and commission, based on the lower end of the estimate.

This must help keep overheads lower and shift hard-to-sell stock, although it's not so good for the seller...

All I know was that he said if they can't make a million turnover on the large auctions then there is no point in doing them.

[Muskett]

No idea of their real figures. They give a service and thats their rate, all in black and white with the odd stinger thrown in for the unwary.
Agreed its not a cheap service; nor are Gas Certificates or pluming issues, dentists or anything else. Get someone else to do something then its going to cost loads of £££££'s.

Anyway, don't think Holts is any better or worse than anyone else. Thats all.

[Lakey]

All that we need in this country is a proper carrier, who is prepared to carry guns for the general public, and to offer sensible insurance rates that reflect the true value of the guns being carried. Such things are available to trade customers, but most will not deal with Joe public or have policies forbidding the carriage of guns (legal to carry in this country - such as sub 12 ft lbs air guns).

The Royal Mail will carry guns, but they do so reluctantly, and seem to employ staff who refuse to accept company rules, also they refuse to offer enough insurance to cover tha value of the goods. (I have heard it said that it is because guns are high risk?) However they will carry cameras, phones and other high tech items which are 100% more fragile. As long as the parcels are well wrapped I dont see a problem. Parcels are normally refused if they are improperly wrapped I thought.
Either way if such a company were to start up, they would have a captive audience of airgun enthusiasts queuing up to use their service, then you would really see BBS sales return to levels as they were before the Royal Mail lost their appeal, and reduced all the insurance rates.

[gingernut]

No idea of their real figures. They give a service and thats their rate, all in black and white with the odd stinger thrown in for the unwary.
Agreed its not a cheap service; nor are Gas Certificates or pluming issues, dentists or anything else. Get someone else to do something then its going to cost loads of £££££'s.

Anyway, don't think Holts is any better or worse than anyone else. Thats all.

Everybody in the UK wants to earn £500 a day.
No matter how simple their job is.

I get annoyed with heating engineers who fix a boiler in 4 minutes charge £90 and don't tell you what the( obviously simple ) problem is.

And who can afford to pay a dopey Solicitor £250 per hour plus vat so it's really £300 per hour.

My teeth cost me more than any other single household expense last year.
Only for a Crown and a couple of filling repairs!

I could go on!

[Jerry Cornelius]

I get annoyed with heating engineers who fix a boiler in 4 minutes charge £90 and don't tell you what the( obviously simple ) problem is.

To be fair, I am sure you are very sensible, but from experience with the great british public, if gas engineers went round telling people what was wrong with their boilers it wouldn't be long before some idiot caused an explosion trying to fix something themselves, and then they or their insurers would try to blame the engineer.

I can see why they don't.

[Lakey]

Everybody in the UK wants to earn £500 a day.
No matter how simple their job is.

I get annoyed with heating engineers who fix a boiler in 4 minutes charge £90 and don't tell you what the( obviously simple ) problem is.

And who can afford to pay a dopey Solicitor £250 per hour plus vat so it's really £300 per hour.

My teeth cost me more than any other single household expense last year.
Only for a Crown and a couple of filling repairs!

I could go on!

If you asked for an itemised bill from the heating engineer, it would probably look a bit like this

Doing a four minute fix = £4.00

Knowing exactly what to fix and how to fix it = £86.00


If they have studied their trade for years , and it is their livelyhood - you cant blame them I suppose

[gingernut]

It doesn't happen to me as I have a plumber my age who has done ours for a few years.

But all three of my kids have had it this winter.
I think their systems lose pressure which is often easily fixed by opening a valve or two.

Off topic sorry.

[Garvin]

It doesn't happen to me as I have a plumber my age who has done ours for a few years.

But all three of my kids have had it this winter.
I think their systems lose pressure which is often easily fixed by opening a valve or two.

Off topic sorry.

Sorry, another off-topic post because this thread has drifted off topic...

When I got my first Morris Minor (second hand - it was the '80s) it came with a shop manual aimed at the ordinary owner which told him how to bleed the brakes, grease the steering rack, suspension trunions etc - things that were potentially life threatening if you got them wrong.

As well as the the many smaller service jobs, it also addressed quite major things like renewing the timing chain, clutch plate, thrust bearing and so on and so on, all of which I tackled at some time or other.

No wonder there's so much hostility towards experts these days; we're not trusted or encouraged to become one ourselves!

[gingernut]

Good point Danny.

[Phil Russell]

Totally agree with Danny. My own take on it is that most youngsters, and by that I include any person drifting towards their 30s, have not been encouraged to mend things themselves (OK, a few exceptions, but generally true) due to the route that technology has drifted over the past few decades ... a throw away culture enhanced by an inability to get spares anyway. Gone are the days when airgun instruction manuals gave detailed instructions on how to strip it down, replace mainspring and piston washer. If this meant dismantling the trigger (as on several Webley and Air Arms early rifles) then instructions on this were included together with reassembly instructions. My first pcp, an SM100 even gave instructions on how to adjust the power.
A sign of the times no doubt. As they say, today knowledge is power. Or not as the case may be.
Cheers, Phil

[Jimny4x4]

All that we need in this country is a proper carrier, who is prepared to carry guns for the general public, and to offer sensible insurance rates that reflect the true value of the guns being carried. Such things are available to trade customers, but most will not deal with Joe public or have policies forbidding the carriage of guns (legal to carry in this country - such as sub 12 ft lbs air guns).

The Royal Mail will carry guns, but they do so reluctantly, and seem to employ staff who refuse to accept company rules, also they refuse to offer enough insurance to cover tha value of the goods. (I have heard it said that it is because guns are high risk?) However they will carry cameras, phones and other high tech items which are 100% more fragile. As long as the parcels are well wrapped I dont see a problem. Parcels are normally refused if they are improperly wrapped I thought.
Either way if such a company were to start up, they would have a captive audience of airgun enthusiasts queuing up to use their service, then you would really see BBS sales return to levels as they were before the Royal Mail lost their appeal, and reduced all the insurance rates.

Well we already have - but don't tell anyone ...Parcelforce .
They stipulate the service called Express 48 for airguns .
Slow - occasionally .
Expensive - Yes , as a minimum fee applies no matter how light , but compared to Royal Mail who seem to use X ray machines more and more now , in terms of weight allowances , the average airpistol x2 in a box compares well .

...and more importantly unless you dismantle every airrifle down or when selling or if buying trust the Seller to do likewise , then Royal Mail is not even a contender as their newer smaller length restrictions negate posting long airrifles .

Maybe one day somebody with time on their hands and a van will offer a specialist courier service , but until Parcelforce say no to airguns .....no need .

[Garvin]

Well we already have - but don't tell anyone ...Parcelforce .
They stipulate the service called Express 48 for airguns .

But only maximum £100 compensation...

[Jimny4x4]

But only maximum £100 compensation...

That aspect has never ever mattered ( to me ) to be fair .
I used to pack up a mean box when I needed to .
Double box-up one inside the other especially if heavy or fragile .
The local Tesco and Morrisons got used to seeing me rummagin for boxes , cardboard and asking for bubble wrap( used for fruit and veg aisle packing ) .

I could never , cannot still understand the logic of posting away a nice airgun and relying on Insurance - to cover ones own lazy arse packing .

Back when we could , I would get airguns sent to my home from gunshops and usually the packing was inadequate or downright shoddy .
Two strips of over a box flap is not parcelling .
Insurance ...that is the LAST option to even waste thinking time on when all it takes is a clean blade and a fresh toll of tape .
Who wants to try and make a claim these days for a "gun" with all its implications,

Its not difficult to pack a box properly , and with a tracked service as PF is - I can say I never had any problems using Parcelforce with their low cover .