BSA STUTZEN Mark 1

[Jimny4x4]

I recall having a competition with a French Enthusiast ( not someone you meet often)
He had A Webley Mk111 ,I was using my Mk 11 Airsporter.
Both .22.
25 Yards.

I won because the Airsporter was better.
Maybe we can agree on that?

He took an Airsporter back home with a few more old English offerings.

Yes to Webley , never understood the following as a BSA shooter so yes can understand . Airsporters just got better and better . I just like the last RB2's but as Airsporterman and others say , earlier are as good. Technically an Rb2 seal breech should be better , most are , but as with every single airgun ever made - each one if different . Barrel tuners would laugh at all of us , as each individual barrel can make or break a gun downrange on target .

[Shed tuner]

Well, we can agree the RB2 airsporter is best because it is the most accurate.
And I accept the Mk1 is the best made
..and the Stutzen is the prettiest

[look no hands]

Airsporters just got better and better . I just like the last RB2's but as Airsporterman and others say , earlier are as good. Technically an Rb2 seal breech should be better , most are , but as with every single airgun ever made - each one if different . Barrel tuners would laugh at all of us , as each individual barrel can make or break a gun downrange on target .

I think a few people will disagree with you saying that the Airsporter just got better and better, they did seem to lose their way between the mk3 and the mk7 and that's why they lost out to the German makes (and believe me I'd rather have an old Airsporter of any mark than anything German), yes I agree with you that the RB2 is the better design and totally agree with you about the barrel making a rifle, I've read over the years how people rave about BSA barrels and how they have them retro fitted to other rifles but to be honest I've never really found them that accurate (the older ones anyway, not sure what the later PCP barrels are like and may be that is what people are refering to?) unless I've been unlucky and had a crap ones or may be they are just pellet fussy but when you are limited to a certain size pellet (the good old 5.6) then you may not ever find that pellet, I'm lucky as mine loves .22 Air Arms but just doesn't like the Defiant Vintage which is annoying as they where supposed to be designed especially for the older British 5.6 barrels, I'm just glad and lucky that I've managed to find my Airsporter that sits in amongst my Mercury and Challenger collection.

Pete

[air-tech]

My friend I fully appreciate that in your country your adventure into British airguns starts at a keyboard and not out in real life .
Whilst I may not have been on here long , I have immersed myself well in the airgun culture in my country for many years.

I stress that the finish as well as the design on any RB2 is far superior to any older tap loader .
But that is my experience , it may not be yours .
I stress caution when seeking to buy airguns in another country where you may be satisfied with receiving examples that here would be considered 'poor', 'rough' , repaired ( and so the finish is damaged slightly ).

I know that if buying a rare Maltese Falcon from 1929 - I would be glad to just speak to a collector and overjoyed if I found one for sale to me in your country. Matters such as condition 'could ' seem less important so I understand fully your dilemma .

In many far flung corners of the Empire , there will of course be many rare treasures hiding that have already disappeared here and you are very fortunate my friend .
Here we must pay the current values expected - from members here or elsewhere in the real World outside, as 'new' sources dried up years ago .
The link you provide underlines my interest in all Stutzen . £400 + Commission + Vat @23% for a single nice tap load Stutzen .

Your link proves that the Prices for all Stutzen have risen here .
It also shows there are Veterans who just talk about buying and there are Collectors who actually buy .

Hahahaha, very amusing indeed.

And so incredibly off the mark that I would not know where to start from.

But I don't need to prove anything to you, so I won't.

Tell me, are you a real person? Or just a computer generated caricature? If the latter, you need some reprogramming, as your command of the basics of orthography in the English language leaves much to be desired. If the former, I can also suggest some rather excellent TEFL schools locally that may help.

[Jimny4x4]

Not interested in anything other than Airguns .

[Antelope]

Not much help re calibre but there was a rare .25 that went for near £600 a couple of weeks ago ,some have said less than 100 units released .of these .25's .. from the free ads place - no sights either ( although I have read and learned elsewhere that these Stutzens were sold with and also without sights.
It would be interesting to find out how many Stutzens were actually made in each calibre ( and also a breakdown of Tap and Rb2 types ) .

Apologies new to this forum, so still trying to get my head around how the posts work. I was lucky enough to get the .25 Stutzen that was for sale a couple of weeks ago and a recent purchase of a .177 RB2 Stutzen completes the collection of a version of this Rifle in all three Calibres, .177, .22 and .25 all RB2. Ever since I was a boy I had dreamt of owning one and remember seeing the adverts in the shooting magazines of the time, in my humble opinion they are Gorgeous looking Guns. My .22 is in excellent condition, the .25 slightly less and the .177 about 5/10, but all are subject to some TLC now. Have been interested to learn of some of the mystique surrounding these Guns, to the extent that I'm not really sure who knows what about them. Was hoping that someone on here could provide some definitive answers as there seems to be confusion over Serial numbers, Iron/Open sights as standard and production figures. The John Knibbs site "whats my BSA" hasnt been particularly helpful when it comes to identifying Stutzens and when I contacted them to make some enquiries was told "thats what BSA gave us". So its easy to throw stones and be critical and that dosnt help me tie things down. As far as I can see there were 5 versions of the BSA Stutzen Rifle (Not inc Centenary):

Tap Loader
.177 (1985-86) S/N Prefix ET
.22 (1985-86) S/N Prefix GR

RB2
.177 (1992-00) S/N Prefix WT (my .177 has the prefix WR instead of WT, which may indicate some RB2 Mechanisms were used on later stocks).
.22 (1992-00) S/N Prefix ZT
.25 (1992-01) S/N Prefix AWR (This is incorrect and should read AWT this has been confirmed by a number of .25 owners).

These dates arnt solid but as close as I can get them. I would like to know if there is any truth in the rumour that there were less than 100 of the .25 made and that they were to special order, if so what is the S/N run? Were all the Stutzens available with or without open/iron sights (my .25 never had either front or rear but does now - arnt the rear sights impossible to source? Were the rear sights that fit on the front of the Maxirail made by BSA or contracted out (I emailed Williams in the US and they denied they were their product and said they were an LPA item which is no longer produced)? Also contacted BSA but am still waiting for a reply. Grateful for any any help or assistance in identifying these beautiful Rifles.

[inproved]

BSA Stutzen Mark 1


Withdrawn from Sale..




Inproved ...Steve

[Jimny4x4]

Apologies new to this forum, so still trying to get my head around how the posts work. I was lucky enough to get the .25 Stutzen that was for sale a couple of weeks ago and a recent purchase of a .177 RB2 Stutzen completes the collection of a version of this Rifle in all three Calibres, .177, .22 and .25 all RB2. Ever since I was a boy I had dreamt of owning one and remember seeing the adverts in the shooting magazines of the time, in my humble opinion they are Gorgeous looking Guns. My .22 is in excellent condition, the .25 slightly less and the .177 about 5/10, but all are subject to some TLC now. Have been interested to learn of some of the mystique surrounding these Guns, to the extent that I'm not really sure who knows what about them. Was hoping that someone on here could provide some definitive answers as there seems to be confusion over Serial numbers, Iron/Open sights as standard and production figures. The John Knibbs site "whats my BSA" hasnt been particularly helpful when it comes to identifying Stutzens and when I contacted them to make some enquiries was told "thats what BSA gave us". So its easy to throw stones and be critical and that dosnt help me tie things down. As far as I can see there were 5 versions of the BSA Stutzen Rifle (Not inc Centenary):

Tap Loader
.177 (1985-86) S/N Prefix ET
.22 (1985-86) S/N Prefix GR

RB2
.177 (1992-00) S/N Prefix WT (my .177 has the prefix WR instead of WT, which may indicate some RB2 Mechanisms were used on later stocks).
.22 (1992-00) S/N Prefix ZT
.25 (1992-01) S/N Prefix AWR (This is incorrect and should read AWT this has been confirmed by a number of .25 owners).

These dates arnt solid but as close as I can get them. I would like to know if there is any truth in the rumour that there were less than 100 of the .25 made and that they were to special order, if so what is the S/N run? Were all the Stutzens available with or without open/iron sights (my .25 never had either front or rear but does now - arnt the rear sights impossible to source? Were the rear sights that fit on the front of the Maxirail made by BSA or contracted out (I emailed Williams in the US and they denied they were their product and said they were an LPA item which is no longer produced)? Also contacted BSA but am still waiting for a reply. Grateful for any any help or assistance in identifying these beautiful Rifles.

Nice to see somebody take an interest in these . Love the look . Love the period . A lot of misinformation out there ...very strange but with airgun manufacture detail gets lost so quickly .

[look no hands]

Nice to see somebody take an interest in these . Love the look . Love the period . A lot of misinformation out there ...very strange but with airgun manufacture detail gets lost so quickly .

When I contacted John Knibbs a couple of years ago about my Airsporter, they said they could look up the info needed but it would cost £25 for them to do so.

Considering John Knibbs has written a book about the history of BSA's they don't seem to know or have much info about them, I've had a few arguments with John himself over certain parts which I had in front of me and he said they never existed.

Pete

[gingernut]

I suppose it takes away the fun but I sold a vgc Diana 25 yesterday and was able to date the gun to March 1979.
That's because they put the date on the side of the cylinder.
Genius.

There is something in the British engineering psyche that likes to make simple information difficult to obtain.
All part of 'I know something you don't know'
See School playground.

[air-tech]

I suppose it takes away the fun but I sold a vgc Diana 25 yesterday and was able to date the gun to March 1979.
That's because they put the date on the side of the cylinder.
Genius.

There is something in the British engineering psyche that likes to make simple information difficult to obtain.
All part of 'I know something you don't know'
See School playground.

But I bet you never had a serial number on the Diana!

[gingernut]

As I said,no fun at all.

The Irish knife maker Rory Conner dates his knives and adds material details along the tang.
Again a real spoilsport.

[Jimny4x4]

See another Stutzen has surfaced , 'standard ' , not mint nor even boxed , nor even open sights up for sale in our favourite haven of airgun collectibles - Protek , at ££££££££££££££££ .

Wow , the .25 rareity reported that went for sale seems in terms of price low now ..Lol !

People did not take to what I said on prices but these were based on what people were asking me to pay them - here and elsewhere proves the point that those in the know - and with cash to spend seem to be drawing these rareities out the broom cupboard after 20+ years of being hidden away .

[Rickenbacker]

BSA Stutzen Mark 1


Withdrawn from Sale..




Inproved ...Steve

Not being a shit stirrer or anything, but I thought this was a valuation thread!?

[inproved]

Yes I did start the thread as a valuation thread..I later put it on a Sales thread. In a tiered moment I withdrew it from Sale on this section by accident.


Regard's

Inproved. Steve