Classic (70's / 80's) rifles- scope or irons?

[Hellequin]

Just a 'nosey old bugger' thread to ask who uses a scope on their 70's & 80's air rifles, or if you prefer to stick with the open sights fitted?

I'm looking to start collecting the odd older rifle and will likely mount a period scope on at least one, but also like open sights.

First rifle on ze list is a Mercury of some description (it's the first rifle I used as a lad) and to be honest I'd like something like a 4x32 scope for it but not sure I'd want to change the looks by removing the open sights.

So, what do you put on your 'collectibles'?

[Gareth W-B]

.
Hello my friend, long time no cyber speak etc etc ... To answer, I have two 1970s rifles scoped with ASI 4x40 scopes (period and superb), and some on open / iron sights so I can mix-n-match, but all my 1960s and older offerings are on open sights as often [a] they are unable to take a scope without serious modification (which will spoil them), [b] their provisions for holding scopes if they have them are poor and not really fit for purpose -- as with the spot-welded wish-bone scope rails on 1960s Webleys which could snap off if used (several recorded instances of this), and [c] most affordable pre-1970s scopes are cr@p (lol ). Hope this helps ???

[Shed tuner]

Small gloss back scopes generally go well on older springers

[Hellequin]

Thanks gents. Pretty much what I'm thinking realy; a nice 4x32 or 4x40 scope in glossy finish. I reckon it'd suit a Mercury very well...

[Muskett]

1970's, or earlier, then open sights are fine.
From the start of Airgun World 1078 then scopes and air rifles took off in a big way.
Some 80's rifle were still iron sight biased, BSA Airsporters are such. Most had sporter stocks so cheek combs set for open flat sights.

Jap scopes were the right price for putting on air rifles. Low magnification to start, with the x4 most commonly fitted. Soon 3-9x40 were taken up, and by 1986 anything went including big 56 objectives. Late 80's anything went including high end scopes.

Here are some examples of well matched, best looking combo's that I've managed over the years:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6760.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6778.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMGP6766_1.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6797.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6733.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6138.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMG_3971_2.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_4087.jpg

Get them looking just right is quite difficult, but fantastic when you do.
Many rifles just don't look comfortable scoped, especially the older designs:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_3593.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_4094.jpg

Scope mounts and their look and finish does make a difference. Its a nightmare trying to match the quality, look and overall combination to look "correct". When poor chosen parts a good looking rifle can just look all wrong. When matched right its a real plus and they usually handle and shoot better for it.
Anyway, its one of my passions to get my rifles looking right. Its really not easy, and a hobby in itself. Buying a rifle, even mint rifle, is the easy bit.

[JACK RATT]

I've got 3 x Original Model 50's and a Mk1 Airsporter and use them with out a scope. Mother nature has blessed me with good eyesight and even now at 59 I only sometimes have to wear reading glasses.

I bought a scope for my HW77 but still haven't fitted it some 3 years later.

No doubt the day will come sooner rather than later though

[gingernut]

I prefer iron sights.
Most older guns aren't long range shooters anyway?

[Muskett]

A whole lot of the older rifles shoot fantastically with iron sights and are very capable at farmyard ranges. Many rifles we raved about in the old days were set up for iron sights and worked great. We only questioned their abilities when we fitted scopes and tried for longer and longer ranges. Ruined it for many older designs. Think its called progress, but with progress we lost something too.

[mrgeoff]

I mostly use scopes on my 80s classics. I like to see what I'm hitting ;-)

Not really got any classic scopes yet, apart from the Webley 3-9x40 on my Webley Tracker.

Would like to get a couple of nice quality 4x32 gloss period scopes to top off my other classics.

[Geezer]

I like period Japanese glass in sensible powers and sizes (4x32, 4x and 6x40, 3-9x32 or 40) on full size, full power hunting/FT guns from the 80s. I have basically given up on period mounts because so many of them are awful and the good ones (eg Apel) are hard to find, and use Sportsmatch or in one case BKL 1 piece.

Iron sights on anything pre-1975 or so.

Smaller rifles (eg Diana 25, 24) mostly iron sights. I gave been known to put a small scope on, only to decide I prefer to use the irons (and this is for short range plinking, nothing more demanding).

The older click-adjustable Williams peep sights are quite nice, and "age appropriate" - eg I have a Beeman branded one on my C1 carbine.

Although they are historically appropriate, I have no time for the little 7/8" tube integral mount 4x20s and the like. Have never had a good experience with one. The only way I could contemplate one would be on an RO72 "Artillery Carbine", because it's a novelty from my youth, not an airgun you actually shoot for pleasure.

[Geezer]

1970's, or earlier, then open sights are fine.
From the start of Airgun World 1078 then scopes and air rifles took off in a big way.
Some 80's rifle were still iron sight biased, BSA Airsporters are such. Most had sporter stocks so cheek combs set for open flat sights.

Jap scopes were the right price for putting on air rifles. Low magnification to start, with the x4 most commonly fitted. Soon 3-9x40 were taken up, and by 1986 anything went including big 56 objectives. Late 80's anything went including high end scopes.

Here are some examples of well matched, best looking combo's that I've managed over the years:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6760.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6778.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMGP6766_1.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6797.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6733.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMGP6138.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...IMG_3971_2.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_4087.jpg

Get them looking just right is quite difficult, but fantastic when you do.
Many rifles just don't look comfortable scoped, especially the older designs:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_3593.jpg
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/IMG_4094.jpg

Scope mounts and their look and finish does make a difference. Its a nightmare trying to match the quality, look and overall combination to look "correct". When poor chosen parts a good looking rifle can just look all wrong. When matched right its a real plus and they usually handle and shoot better for it.
Anyway, its one of my passions to get my rifles looking right. Its really not easy, and a hobby in itself. Buying a rifle, even mint rifle, is the easy bit.

Some really nice stuff there. I agree the BSF 54 looks wrong with any kind of scope. The Vulcan Deluxe would, though, I think look just right with something like a gloss 3-9x32 in a low mount.

[Garvin]

Just a 'nosey old bugger' thread to ask who uses a scope on their 70's & 80's air rifles, or if you prefer to stick with the open sights fitted?

I'm looking to start collecting the odd older rifle and will likely mount a period scope on at least one, but also like open sights.

First rifle on ze list is a Mercury of some description (it's the first rifle I used as a lad) and to be honest I'd like something like a 4x32 scope for it but not sure I'd want to change the looks by removing the open sights.

So, what do you put on your 'collectibles'?

If you like 4x32 Japanese scopes the Original model 10 is fantastically bright.

[Hellequin]

A whole lot of the older rifles shoot fantastically with iron sights and are very capable at farmyard ranges. Many rifles we raved about in the old days were set up for iron sights and worked great. We only questioned their abilities when we fitted scopes and tried for longer and longer ranges. Ruined it for many older designs. Think its called progress, but with progress we lost something too.

I definitely agree with the last part of that Tom. Although it's easy to look back with rose-tinted specs I still think there's a lot to be said for those seemingly simpler days gone by. Even though I grew up in the 70's & 80's, rather than 50's/60's, it was still a pretty carefree time without all the hustle & speed of modern tech. I think we could learn something by looking back and just slowing down occasionally...

If you like 4x32 Japanese scopes the Original model 10 is fantastically bright.

That looks good mate, just the kind of thing which would suit. That said, I've just bought an old Jap Tasco 4x32 with a gloss finish from the sales section; it'll certainly 'do' for a while I think.

[trick cyclist]

I bought my FWB 127 with an ASI 4x32 on it, and it complements the rifle really well, but I took it off and prefer shooting it on the open sights at the moment.

[Muskett]

Single piece mounts sure hold the scope on. Sportmatch are good mounts but their design really doesn't match the gloss of many older rifles. Apel can as they are quite fine but they don't grip that well and the arrestor stud is important (two designs here, pin HW and cross oFWB/Omega).
There are plenty of one piece and a few look OK, most look yuck.

To piece can look better but many weren't up to the job of holding the scope on a vibrating springer. Over tightening and they broke.

Arrestor blocks do help but hard o find and the nice trim ones almost impossible. Bulky ones look yuck.

Budget scopes of the day were made to a price and ring marks is common. Depending on the rifle then mounts had to be far forward on the scope to get the right eye position. Depended on the rifle but there were three positions, so swopping between rifles wasn't always easy.
Lastly, scope height wasn't often done well with high mounts used when a medium or low would have worked. Knowledge on how to set a scope up wasn't well known and lots were poorly done even in the shops.

Know how to shoot iron sights, practice standing shots, and in the farmyard or plinking they can do remarkably well. Very fast too. Funny triggers weren't as important as accuracy could e done with a faster technique. Scopes means faffing in the aim to let mistakes creep in such as holding one's breath far to long and poor follow through. A lot to be said thats positive about correct use of iron sights. Good fun too and rewarding once mastered.