Short-lived designs

[Garvin]

This 'harmonica pistol' is up for sale at the Hermann Historica auction house. Barmy design when compared to eg. the revolver...

It makes you think about airguns, particularly how the Certus and Parker 'Precision' were presumably hoped to be 'the next big thing' by their inventors/makers, who invested money into their manufacture.

But then as history showed, the simplicity and brilliance of the Johnstone & Fearn patent Webley design destroyed the commercial prospects of most other air pistols, in a design that persisted for many decades. The Certus was actually patented several years after the Webley and appears to be based on it, to some extent.

[Abasmajor]

Hi Danny,

Ironically, the the Johnstone & Fearn patent included the possibility of hinging the barrel at the breech end which it is believed influenced the decision to withdraw the Certus from the market.

The Westley Richards 'Concentric' Highest Possible was yet another short lived design that probably owed it's demise to the iconic Webley alternative.

Regards

Brian

[flogger]

Hi Danny,

Ironically, the th Johnstone & Fern patent included the possibility of hinging the barrel at the breech end which it is believed influenced the decision to withdraw the Certus from the market.

The Westley Richards 'Concentric' Highest Possible was yet another short lived design that probably owed it's demise to the iconic Webley alternative.

Regards

Brian

I believe they infringed certain Webley patents thats why they came off the market.
Roly.

[45flint]

Similar situation with the Targ-Aire and the Hy-Score over here in America. Both came out right after the War but the Targ-Aire went away very quickly. I think the Hy-Score had both a cost advantage and superior performance. Timing is everything in life? I do love the seemingly endless designs the English come up with. Collectors dream.

[Garvin]

Hi Danny,

Ironically, the the Johnstone & Fearn patent included the possibility of hinging the barrel at the breech end which it is believed influenced the decision to withdraw the Certus from the market.

The Westley Richards 'Concentric' Highest Possible was yet another short lived design that probably owed it's demise to the iconic Webley alternative.

Regards

Brian

Interesting, Brian. In that case it makes you wonder how Cogswell & Harrison got to the stage of having tooled up and gone into production with the Certus at all, five years after the Webley patent was approved?

[45flint]

By the way great grips on that Parker!

[Garvin]

By the way great grips on that Parker!

They are nice, but not originals, which were generally quite plain.

[Abasmajor]

Interesting, Brian. In that case it makes you wonder how Cogswell & Harrison got to the stage of having tooled up and gone into production with the Certus at all, five years after the Webley patent was approved?

Patents can be funny old things sometimes Danny. For instance, I can't understand how the 'Thunderbolt Junior' and 'Ackvoke' could be awarded separate patents when apart from physical size, the designs bore such a strong resemblance to the Tell 2. I remember an earlier discussion on the forum regarding BSA feeling the need to stamp so many separate parts on the LJ / BSA rifles with the associated patent numbers given that it probably provided little protection in itself. We all know how many foreign made air guns from that era were imported, possibly modified very slightly and then sold under British makers trade names as their own design.

Regards

Brian

[Garvin]

Patents can be funny old things sometimes Danny. For instance, I can't understand how the 'Thunderbolt Junior' and 'Ackvoke' could be awarded separate patents when apart from physical size, the designs bore such a strong resemblance to the Tell 2. I remember an earlier discussion on the forum regarding BSA feeling the need to stamp so many separate parts on the LJ / BSA rifles with the associated patent numbers given that it probably provided little protection in itself. We all know how many foreign made air guns from that era were imported, possibly modified very slightly and then sold under British makers trade names as their own design.

Regards

Brian

True, Brian, the story of patents, especially foreign ones, seems rather murky. But you'd think that large British gunmakers would have respected each others' intellectual property enough to stop one tooling up for a gun that breached another's patent, wouldn't you? Could they have licensed the design - getting Webley's permission to make a gun based on its patent?

[Abasmajor]

True, Brian, the story of patents, especially foreign ones, seems rather murky. But you'd think that large British gunmakers would have respected each others' intellectual property enough to stop one tooling up for a gun that breached another's patent, wouldn't you? Could they have licensed the design - getting Webley's permission to make a gun based on its patent?

Hi Danny,

I really struggle to understand why such a highly respected gun maker as Cogswell & Harrison would lend their name to such a poorly conceived design as the Certus. Iv'e often compared it to something Wallace & Grommit might have come up with had they been Cogswell & Harrison employees at the time. Although Webley had the forethought to include the reversed cocking lever direction in their patent, they quickly dismissed it as being impractical. I'm not so surprised at Westley Richards collaborating with Anson to produce some of his designs give their innovative and well thought out qualities. Having said all that, I do own a Certus myself as it represents part of the story, albeit a rather unsuccessful one.

Brian