Webley Mk3, initial impressions

[clarky]

Reminds me to get through the pile of projects and finish this one
Made a M6 screw in transfer port to sleeve it down . Can't remember size now but around 3mm.
Simple enough exercise with my basic tools and skill set but wasn't impressed with results. However I've more experience with shot "feel" now so must get back on it. Aware of the design criteria for bell mouth opening/turbulence etc but come on it's "just a bit of fun".

From memory the Mkll Service TP is 45mm X 4.5mm so shouldn't work at all maybe. Got some nice copper tube here. That may be interesting.
Oh hell another distraction.

I did one once with a taper driven in from the back of the piston.....a real piece of inginuity ....i used a a dowel of just a few degrees of angle but left it on a long 1.5 ft length of bar stock while testing it in and out of position and then when finally happy i parted down the steel bar until just barely 1mm was left behind the dowel.....leaving it still fixed to the bar stock. alaeft it on to poke it down in position, gluing with Loctite 480....then twisting the lenght of bar once set to snap off the tiny 1mm section holding it to the bar...
Worked perfectly .....shot cycle much nicer and power up about 0.5 ftlb...

[johnbaz]

Magnificent collection you have, there, Johnbaz; thank you for sharing that. How do you find they compare in terms of operation, trigger, accuracy and power? Is there much variance?

Yes, I agree Geezer that this should not turn into an Airsporter v Mk3 debate as both were superlative British rifles, albeit somewhat long in the tooth by the time the '70s were upon us, and could not compete with the German manufactures towards the end of the decade.

Deejayuu, I did not follow your line of thought but it sounds as if you are modifying the transfer port. Do let us know how that develops. Given I have two Mk3s, I would be happy to submit one for experimentation.

I missed JM's article in AGW, despite searching for the journal in WHS; I think they had all sold out by then.

Rgds
A

Hi Andrew

I feel embarrassed to say that I don't know!!

It's so long since I last shot any of them that I just can't remember!!


John

[andrewM]

It would be a great service to all Mk3 fans if you could chronograph them (you might have to use a selection of pellets to find the best) and range test them for accuracy and see what happens. That, however, is asking rather a lot!

Best
A

[deejayuu]

Apologies to OP for hi jack of the thread.
Andrew if you look close at the pic on my post you'll see a blurred screwdriver slot. That's my M6 screwed sleeve.
Butchery maybe but that's me.
If there's interest I'll start a thread on it.
P.S. Clarky what dia TP please ?

[andrewM]

Deejayuu, the technicalities are somewhat over my head but yes, why not start a new thread on it. The technical people here will probably enjoy it and anything they don't know is not worth knowing!

A

[Telephonepete]

i have an early mark 3 i got it when i was 15. i am now 75 and it was not new when i got it. i shot it until i was about 30 and then sold it. at my early retirement party when i was 50. the guy said " have you ever got rid of something and regretted it pete" and he slid the gun still in the canvas home made slip across the floor to me.( previous owner was a sailor ). i was overwhelmed with the gesture. i ran about 50 pellets through it and it was still the same as i sold it. ( the stock was broken in the usual place and repaired by a 19 year old me ). it is still ok today. i put it away under the stairs and forgot about it. about 10 years later i came across it. when i took it out of the slip to my horror it was full of rust. i was not back to shooting at that time. i scraped it off the best i could shot it and it was still shooting fine and lagged it with oil and put it away again. then i got back to shooting big time and i now have some terrific guns but when i shoulder it it is still the gun i feel most at home with. when i was about 18 if my mate stood about 5 yds away and threw an old penny in the air directly above him about 6ft up i could hit it about 4 times out of 10. i seemed to have much more fun shooting with open sights in those days. marksman pellets were the ones of choice. the thing is what do i do to reserect it. i have sanded it down to bare metal as best i can but it is hard to get it really clean around the tap and various sticky up bits. if i get it blued by colin malloy how far does he go to clean them up ? can he blue over any bits of existing blue. i could easy get a new stock but the broken one is part of the gun and memory lane. i now find it hard to cock and it hurts my palm a bit but i would get used to that. when i was 15 i could cock it holding it by the pistol grip without bracing it on my hip (dont get old). the thing is what to do with it? regards pete

[Airsporter1st]

i have an early mark 3 i got it when i was 15. i am now 75 and it was not new when i got it. i shot it until i was about 30 and then sold it. at my early retirement party when i was 50. the guy said " have you ever got rid of something and regretted it pete" and he slid the gun still in the canvas home made slip across the floor to me.( previous owner was a sailor ). i was overwhelmed with the gesture. i ran about 50 pellets through it and it was still the same as i sold it. ( the stock was broken in the usual place and repaired by a 19 year old me ). it is still ok today. i put it away under the stairs and forgot about it. about 10 years later i came across it. when i took it out of the slip to my horror it was full of rust. i was not back to shooting at that time. i scraped it off the best i could shot it and it was still shooting fine and lagged it with oil and put it away again. then i got back to shooting big time and i now have some terrific guns but when i shoulder it it is still the gun i feel most at home with. when i was about 18 if my mate stood about 5 yds away and threw an old penny in the air directly above him about 6ft up i could hit it about 4 times out of 10. i seemed to have much more fun shooting with open sights in those days. marksman pellets were the ones of choice. the thing is what do i do to reserect it. i have sanded it down to bare metal as best i can but it is hard to get it really clean around the tap and various sticky up bits. if i get it blued by colin malloy how far does he go to clean them up ? can he blue over any bits of existing blue. i could easy get a new stock but the broken one is part of the gun and memory lane. i now find it hard to cock and it hurts my palm a bit but i would get used to that. when i was 15 i could cock it holding it by the pistol grip without bracing it on my hip (dont get old). the thing is what to do with it? regards pete

I understand that Colin actually prefers to do the cleaning and polishing himself, to assure the great finish he gets. (I've owned two guns reblued by him, though I wasn't the one who commissioned him to do them). I would certainly have it reblued, even if all you do is take it out and fondle it once in a while - it deserves that for all the pleasure its given you. Equally, you should keep the original stock and maybe get that professionally refurbished too.

I can cerainly empathise with your story; I've still got my first ever gun - an Airsporter Mk11 - which I bought decidedly second hand for £3 50+ years ago, when I was in my early teens. I have other Airsporters but that one still sends a shiver down my spine (and not because its dieseling, before anyone jumps in!) when I shoulder and shoot it.

My son can take or leave shooting, even though he's a natural shot ( I once let him bring the Airsporter when a mate and I were out with the shotguns. He was instructed to walk between and slightly behind us and shoot anything that tried to get away. This was just to give him a purpose, as far as I was concerned, but to my amazement, I barrelled a high pheasant and he stuck a 0.22 in it on the way down!), so I do wonder what will happen to my guns when I pop off. I know he said he'll keep that first Airsporter for the sentimental value, but I don't know if he's saying it just to keep me happy.

[clarky]

[QUOTE=deejayuu;7198098]Apologies to OP for hi jack of the thread.
Andrew if you look close at the pic on my post you'll see a blurred screwdriver slot. That's my M6 screwed sleeve.
Butchery maybe but that's me.
If there's interest I'll start a thread on it.
P.S. Clarky what dia TP please ?[/QUOTE

2.8 mm with the leather washer 3mm ok.

[MDriskill]

It's ironic isn't it that something so well made could be so indifferently designed.

I think it was Ettore Bugatti who first described his competition from Rolls-Royce as "a triumph of workmanship over engineering," LOL. I've long thought this phrase describes the Mk 3 perfectly.

I love the rifle and own 5 of them, but would be the first to admit it is full of quirks. One can argue that it is the essence of why these older, largely hand-fitted guns are so enchanting, though. Each of them seems to have it's own individual personality.

I would highly recommend that all Mk 3 fans read this section of Chris Thrale's book, it is fascinating.

[andrewM]

Most pleasing to have a keen supporter from Knoxville, Tennessee joining the discussion.

So far as Rolls-Royce is concerned, there was a famous pre-WW1 motor race that went, I think, from Switzerland and ended in the Balkans. I believe it still runs - I seem to recall the late Alan Clark participated one year with one of his motor cars. Rolls-Royce made a hash of it first time and was truly trounced and suitably embarrassed. It was either Mr Rolls or Mr Royce who stated that next year they would enter three cars (I recollect) and would gain the first three places. When his partner expressed concerns over the cost to ensure this occurred, in engineering terms, the reply was: "Our success in this event will be remembered long after the cost has been forgotten." Rolls-Royce then went on to win the race the following year, as planned, and the rest is history.

It seems that Clarky is suggesting a reduction in the transfer port to 2.8mm with synthetic washer and 3mm with leather washer. I think he said this would improve the power by 0.5ft/lbs but is it worth it for this small increase?

Anyway, MDriskill, I wonder what pellets you find are best? I suspect you have the 5.5mm pellets these days in USA and not the old .22 (5.6mm), for which this rifle was designed. In addition, how do you find the accuracy and performance differs between your rifles? Your insights would be most interesting.

Rgds
Andrew.

[MDriskill]

Most pleasing to have a keen supporter from Knoxville, Tennessee joining the discussion.

Anyway, MDriskill, I wonder what pellets you find are best? I suspect you have the 5.5mm pellets these days in USA and not the old .22 (5.6mm), for which this rifle was designed. In addition, how do you find the accuracy and performance differs between your rifles? Your insights would be most interesting.

Rgds
Andrew.

Thank you Andrew! I have to say that I'm currently more a gatherer than a shooter of airguns...I have not exercised any of my Mk 3's enough to make bold statements about what works best in them.

Only 2 of the 5 are .22 caliber, and both of those refuse to digest anything other than 5.6 mm Eley Wasps, of which I have a small stash. I've not found a modern 5.5 that doesn't shoot so harshly, I'd be afraid to do any lengthy testing with them.

The .177's also seem to like pellets on the large-ish side. I mostly shoot RWS ammo in those, whose older designs (Hobby, Meisterkugeln, Superdome, Superpoint, etc.) have the largest skirt diameters of any brand I know of.

My best shooter at this point is also the oldest, no. 160XX, a .22 cal with early slender stock and PH 16M sight. It was expertly tuned by a previous owner, and is smooth-shooting, hard-hitting, and very accurate.

[Geezer]

Thank you Andrew! I have to say that I'm currently more a gatherer than a shooter of airguns...I have not exercised any of my Mk 3's enough to make bold statements about what works best in them.

Only 2 of the 5 are .22 caliber, and both of those refuse to digest anything other than 5.6 mm Eley Wasps, of which I have a small stash. I've not found a modern 5.5 that doesn't shoot so harshly, I'd be afraid to do any lengthy testing with them.

The .177's also seem to like pellets on the large-ish side. I mostly shoot RWS ammo in those, whose older designs (Hobby, Meisterkugeln, Superdome, Superpoint, etc.) have the largest skirt diameters of any brand I know of.

My best shooter at this point is also the oldest, no. 160XX, a .22 cal with early slender stock and PH 16M sight. It was expertly tuned by a previous owner, and is smooth-shooting, hard-hitting, and very accurate.

Better than your 1974 Supertarget, which I have seen you post pictures of over on the US forums?

[andrewM]

Thank you Andrew! I have to say that I'm currently more a gatherer than a shooter of airguns...I have not exercised any of my Mk 3's enough to make bold statements about what works best in them.

Only 2 of the 5 are .22 caliber, and both of those refuse to digest anything other than 5.6 mm Eley Wasps, of which I have a small stash. I've not found a modern 5.5 that doesn't shoot so harshly, I'd be afraid to do any lengthy testing with them.

The .177's also seem to like pellets on the large-ish side. I mostly shoot RWS ammo in those, whose older designs (Hobby, Meisterkugeln, Superdome, Superpoint, etc.) have the largest skirt diameters of any brand I know of.

My best shooter at this point is also the oldest, no. 160XX, a .22 cal with early slender stock and PH 16M sight. It was expertly tuned by a previous owner, and is smooth-shooting, hard-hitting, and very accurate.

Well, had I known Eley Wasp were going out of business, I would have filled my boots with them but it was only this year that I discovered it - having been out of air rifle shooting since the early '80s. I have searched the internet but cannot find any for sale anywhere. You might like to try BSA Elites - which are working well for me. So are Superdomes. Hobby produced dreadful chronograph results.

I believe I am correct in saying that the early Mk3s had a double pull trigger, so that would certainly assist with the accuracy. The later ones have to be carefully adjusted: too loose and there is the problem of an accidental discharge but the alternative is often a stiff trigger, which is a strain to shoot.

Rgds
Andrew.

[theThirdMan]

Hi to all, first post on the forum, although have been reading with interest for sometime. Reason for the post, recently acquired my 2nd Mk3, loved the first one so couldn't resist this second one. I do like to tinker, just to make things look reasonable and work, so have stripped down the Mk3. Read with interest a thread from 2015 about what springs to use, as the one in this second mk3 is very tired and bent, that thread seemed to end with the conclusion that an original Webley spring is best (I see that Chambers are selling what they describe as original Webley pattern so fingers crossed this will be the way to go).

Anyway, what intrigued me on this thread is the slight sideway discussion on a barrel modification and wondered whether something similar had been performed on mine as looking into the compression chamber it looked like some sort of sleeve had been added and wasn't sure whether to remove or leave alone, any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Lakey]

The finish on Mk3's is second to none. A deep shiny Black/Blue was the first thing that attracted me to the Mk3. I am essentially a BSA collector but I have a number of Mk3's and find them an accurate gun, once the quirks of the gun are understood, and you manage to build up a familiarity. I am starting to shoot my guns more these days, so I am looking forward to renewing my aquaintance with these guns.

Here is a "chair full"