.25 webley vulcan

[Gareth W-B]

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Ahem, as I said above () ...

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I had a factory spec .25 Webley & Scott springer break-barrel Patriot on my F.A.C. a few years back, and said Patriot dated firmly to the Vulcan era, so wonder if your mates Vulcan is a hybrid of a regular Vulcan fitted with a Patriot barrel?

That stacks up as being possible in m book, as it was possible to order a Patriot .25 sub 12ft.lb at that time, thus eliminating the need for RFD and/or Proof House intervention, so in theory, it was potentially possible to order a .25 barrel off ticket back in the day? Just a (hopefully helpful) thought?

[Thegreg]

I had a mid 90's Webley Excel in .25

I'm certain it wasn't cobbled together from Patriot parts so I don't see why a genuine .25 Vulcan couldn't exist.

[Gareth W-B]

I had a mid 90's Webley Excel in .25

I'm certain it wasn't cobbled together from Patriot parts so I don't see why a genuine .25 Vulcan couldn't exist.

Didn't suggest 'cobbled together from Patriot parts' but merely mooted that the same barrel blanks sourced for the .25 Patriot (which was also mostly only available in .22, as I can testify, as have had several of them in .22 on my ticket, too), may have also been used for the Vulcan in question -- as I would also proffer they were for the .25 Excel as well?

[Geezer]

So, this could be:

1. A regular factory item that none of us (or Chris Thrale in his book) have heard of.
2. A special factory order.
3. A bitsa (would a Patriot barrel fit a Vulcan? I thought the commonality was Patriot with Omega.)
4. A one-off aftermarket conversion.

We need detail. Pictures, serial numbers, provenance....

[Gareth W-B]

So, this could be:

1. A regular factory item that none of us (or Chris Thrale in his book) have heard of.
2. A special factory order.
3. A bitsa (would a Patriot barrel fit a Vulcan? I thought the commonality was Patriot with Omega.)
4. A one-off aftermarket conversion.

We need detail. Pictures, serial numbers, provenance....

1) A very valid point and one well worth noting. Well brought up.

2) A possibility, but as far as I remember, Webley & Scott didn't do completely one-off bespoke specials, just limited edition specials to a set number -- and as you say, if Chris doesn't detail a .25 Vulcan in this arena, imho, that rules this option out, too?

3) Can't rule this out completely, because as the diameter of a Patriot, Omega, Vulcan Mk.II and Vulcan Mk.III barrel (not the Vulcan Mk.I however) are the same (just checked), this is feasible?

and ...

4) Although I'd like to somehow link the .25 Vulcan being discussed here to the Webley & Scott factory direct in some way (doing so appeals to my fondness for the factory that was), I think this may be the most likely, but as you say, photos will help carry this cyber conversation forward me thinks?

Good thread this, thoroughly enjoying it.

[Geezer]

The idea of a .25" Excel is also intriguing. But Chris' book makes no mention, and I don't recall them from back in the day. Can anyone provide a contemporary advert, article, or review to suggest they were a factory item?

[Gareth W-B]

The idea of a .25" Excel is also intriguing. But Chris' book makes no mention, and I don't recall them from back in the day. Can anyone provide a contemporary advert, article, or review to suggest they were a factory item?

Ditto all as above ...

[Gareth W-B]

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..... and I say again

Good thread this, thoroughly enjoying it.

[T 20]

So, this could be:

1. A regular factory item that none of us (or Chris Thrale in his book) have heard of.
2. A special factory order.
3. A bitsa (would a Patriot barrel fit a Vulcan? I thought the commonality was Patriot with Omega.)
4. A one-off aftermarket conversion.

We need detail. Pictures, serial numbers, provenance....

There was talk on here many moons ago of another .25" Vulcan.

I shall have another search later to see if I can find the relevant thread.




All the best Mick

[Troubledshooter]

I had a mid 90's Webley Excel in .25

I'm certain it wasn't cobbled together from Patriot parts so I don't see why a genuine .25 Vulcan couldn't exist.

I too have a .25 Webley Excel so there may have been several made.

[Thegreg]

I too have a .25 Webley Excel so there may have been several made.

Oh fantastic, there's at least 2 of them then!

I can confirm with certainty mine was factory made. I asked my dad about this, who originally bought it brand new in 1994, and later passed it on to me.

I've done some research and can't find a damn thing on a .25 Excel.

Greg

[StephenJH]

I know I'm resurrecting here... hope that's ok.

My first rifle was a Vulcan MKII. It cost £87.50 (18/09/1985) (+ pellets £1.75) and is still going strong, though there are a few mods to make that I've not gotten round to. But it is in .25 calibre I had it converted by Venom circa 1990. For £50 I got a new .25 barrel (BSA?) with a new breech block (threaded so the barrel could be removed) and a lovely venom silencer threaded on the end, not 1/2 UNF some other much tighter thread. In the end of the silencer was a brass plug and there was also a brass 'ring' around the breech of the barrel with a small indentation underneath for the barrel to rest against the breech pin. I still have all the paperwork for this conversion, just not accessible right now.

I was over the moon and considered it a bargain even then. Looking into the new .25 barrel was like looking into the void after shooting .22 for 6 years or more and thumbing home a Rhino (which worked best) almost took me back to army days, it simply seemed HUGE! I never shot long-range, preferring to stalk and get close, so I never noticed any particular drop in trajectory or had an issue like that. Rabbits were somersaulted and squirrels dropped like stones. Years later I got a Combro and realised why

Corrected, it still shot well and put many a meal on the plate. Other modifications included replacing the pin underneath on the cocking lever, as it had worn the cylinder, with tiny rollers. Gerald Cardew did that and they worked well too, but I think they may also be flattened in places now too. Bowkett sold replacement breech seals and I believe one is still in there, they were red and slightly harder than the usual Webley replacements. Cardew also threaded a breech bolt, replacing the original pin completely, and sinking them into the side walls of the breech jaws, having removed some of the steel there. These worked well at first but would eventually work loose. The barrel was held in place by the tiniest of grub screws, allen headed, but I know this has now split and is one of the jobs I need to get around to sorting.

Internally Titan XS springs were the usual replacements, but they were probably way too much for the Vulcan really. Bowkett sold spring washers and I'm sure there are still two in there behind my lopped Titan spring. A simple metal sheet was purchased from some business in an Airgun magazine I can't recall (Tawn?), and this became the piston sleeve. A genuine replacement Webley parachute type washer was installed on the piston - but after this the barrel, when opened would fall far further before engaging the piston to cock than it used to with the original PTFE and neoprene washer fitted. I never looked into why. The original metal spring guide was replaced with a new plastic one when the MKIII came out, but I preferred the polished metal MKII version and went back to using that.

From this BBS I purchased a Stingray (original) stock for about £15 IIRC and fitted that to the Vulcan. The only modification required was to Dremel space for the replacement breech bolt that now jutted out further than the pin that used to 'hold' the jaws. The stock bolts were replaced with Venom allen head bolts and with brass cups for the fore end, but I think these went by the way side and have been replaced with genuine replacements, possibly as a result of changing the stock. Over the years the bolt threads wore away in the cylinder end (slightly) and below the trigger group (a lot). Cardew had a great fix for this and simply welded a nut under the trigger within which the bolt would thread. Problem solved.

The new Stingray stock required a new trigger guard and a straightforward Stingray one piece replacement was fitted (I also have a 'gold plated' version purchased after, but it's never been fitted and I'm not sure why I didn't get around to doing that!). The original Vulcan MKII trigger guard had also been replaced with a Venom created replica in brass which was very nice. As the original stock was dumped it served no purpose and I 'lightened my load' by selling it on the BBS or AG Forum. The original MKII trigger was replaced with a MKIII version which was more comfortable, wider, grooved and looked better. It also meant the trigger was now two-stage - although from memory it's not a true two-stage trigger, but gives the feeling it is, either way it was an improvement.

Those are all the mods from memory. I still have a new Webley adjustable but pad to fit at some point and the whole thing needs a good servicing, but with half my life spent overseas it's finding the time to keep up with everything that's the challenge. Now when I look at the rifle, in my possession since 1985, I have a lot of fond memories of the times we spent together, the bluing is still deep and there are scrapes and scratches here and there, some of which I recall doing, but then if I start to count the original parts left it's only really the cylinder block, cylinder end, cocking lever and piston that are original!

If they were looked after, Vulcan's were simple, effective and more than capable of 'bringing home the bacon'. It was years before I used a pcp, or bought another rifle but I'd never sell the Vulcan - even at the prices I see them sold for now! I also have a Skan R32 in .22 with an extended barrel and an outstanding silencer project for that... the days just aren't long enough!

[Gareth W-B]

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Hi StephenJH that is a fascinating post, thank you. Seeing as how you are a Webley Vulcan fan, you may like to have a look at the on-going history and chat thread that is currently running here in collectables on the Webley Vulcan, and maybe copy and paste a version of your post as above to it, too?

Said Vulcan thread is currently residing on page four of collectables, but don't worry, I'll go bump it back ttt of page one for you. Atb: G.

[StephenJH]

Thanks Gareth. Am I allowed to cut and paste the thread post again? I've not been here for a while so didn't want to break any rules! I still have two folders of airgun paperwork and adds from the 80's with all the receipts for the work and a whole lotta other stuff too. Colchester Gamekeeper, McGarry?... remember those mods? Maybe one day I can get it scanned and shared here.