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I currently shoot a .177 HW100KS with a Bushnell Elite 2.5-16x42 fairly well I think, I use a laser rangefinder and understand my guns trajectory and mildot points of aim. This was my first .177 in over 20 years of shooting .22 to a guesstimate degree of accuracy/aim points and has been an eye opener.
However, I am mainly taking a squirrel or two a week upto 35 yards and longer range crows and pigeons in a neighbouring field and fancy returning to .22 for a challenge.
Can anyone point me in the direction of hard facts about the retained energy of .22 in say 16gns and .177 in 10gns (I prefer JSB Heavies) so I can see if there's any advantage in moving back to .22 to offset the more challenging trajectory?
Thanks to anyone who can contribute!
Don't believe the hype .22 rules!
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Energy levels are just plain low, in both calibres so it's all about accuracy.
You may launch a pellet at 11.5ftlbs but by the time it travels 40yds your down to the 7-8 ftlb mark, so a .5 to 1ftlb difference means nothing really, fact is you have a greater chance of putting the shot where it needs to be in .177 as your range estimation is less critical, especially with lighter flatter flying pellets.
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Would Chairgun help? The BC of the pellet is very important. I don't think I managed to install on my PC but that was quite a while ago maybe Chairgun has also been updated.
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A typical 8.4 grain .177 pellet will knock a swinging target back about 40 degrees where as . 22 pelted will knock it back 90 degrees.
That really sums it up, .22 hit harder but there are other factors to consider.
With accuracy being a given the other things to consider are pellet design, pellet material and the angle of shot taken on on quarry.
Zebedee
The last time I looked, the H&N website showed quite a lot of detail on retained velocity.
I also seem to remember that the 10.5 grain Barracudas come out well in velocity / energy retention stakes? So, if velocity retention is important to you, maybe worth a try? Subject to the given that accuracy has to be your major consideration.
I used to use the old Silhouettes years ago (9.2 grains?) and they were excellent. I wouldn't personally want to run the heavier Barracudas in my springers, but they'll be fine in your PCP.
I have no experience of the JSB heavies but could only guess that they'll be superb as long as your barrel likes them.
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shoot 10.3 JSB heavies or over 13 grain monsters. the heavies have quite high BC even for a .177
there is H&N sniper magnum even heavier or the piledrivers. i think the last 2 are too heavy and pricey really.
in the US they shoot 2-5x more powerful airguns, and i can tell you they cant shoot them 5x our distances.
Last edited by krisko; 20-02-2017 at 09:34 PM.
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Thanks for the tip, the H&N site is very useful and shows clearly the superior energy retaining properties of heavier pellets in either calibre.Originally Posted by TonyL
The last time I looked, the H&N website showed quite a lot of detail on retained velocity.
I also seem to remember that the 10.5 grain Barracudas come out well in velocity / energy retention stakes? So, if velocity retention is important to you, maybe worth a try? Subject to the given that accuracy has to be your major consideration.
I used to use the old Silhouettes years ago (9.2 grains?) and they were excellent. I wouldn't personally want to run the heavier Barracudas in my springers, but they'll be fine in your PCP.
I have no experience of the JSB heavies but could only guess that they'll be superb as long as your barrel likes them.
Totally agree that BC coupled with ease and accuracy of shot placement are the other cornerstones.
Don't believe the hype .22 rules!
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With any sub-12 ft/lb air rifle, all this talk of retained energy, 'knockdown' power and the like is utterly meaningless without pin-point placement...
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And any talk of pin-point accuracy is pointless without learning your trajectories, granted one is less demanding than the other at longer ranges - but without practice neither is any good
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
Always shot .22, went .177 and it's ok..... As soon as I bought a rangefinder I wanted .22 again!!!
Wonder why??
"corners should be round"
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12ft/lbs guns: then no doubt the .22 holds the energy, and the .177 the more forgiving with a flatter trajectory.
With a rangefinder it helps.
Neither get hydraulic shock so its a .177 or .22 stiletto wound tract. Pin point accurate shot placement is everything.
They say .22 for fur, .177 for feather.
On a wood pigeon breast shot a .22 can feather plug when the soft feathers wrap on the spinning pellet. I didn't believe it until proven by it happening. The other is not penetrating through a grain filled crop. Frankly its head shots only that nail it, so it is all in pin point shooting.
I prefer .177 on everything except rats where the .22 has best destruction effect.
I've fed my .177 rifles RWS SuperDomes for years now, seems to work.
Last edited by Muskett; 21-02-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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there's a fallacy that heavier pellets hit harder, take a look at this test-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJX3xg1nUAY
You will note the faster pellet creates a larger wound channel and the wadcutters and hollowpoints transmit the most impact force, a lighter high velocity pellet is not only superior in it's less range critical, but it has greater impact creating a larger cavity, when your messing about with power as low as 5-7ftlbs at the target 1ftlb makes no practical difference!
when your using power levels this low It's ALL about accuracy, add to that the greater impact of a faster pellet and the choice is self explanatory.
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Forget the .22 caliber. As it has been mentioned the differential in energy retention for our sub 12 pea shooters is too small to make a meaningful difference. Use a heavy pellet such as the JSB Excat Heavy or the Bisely magnums and if they prove accurate in your rifle then they are the best compromise . The Exact heavy has a BC near enough of that of a .22 ( almost the same energy retention as a .22 ) with about 120 ft/s speed advantage. This is something that I feel a lot of people do not consider while hunting the quarry beyond 35~40 yards. I have seen enough Videos in slow motion to know that often they do see the slow pellet and at times manage to dodge it. The sound travels a lot faster than the pellet and these animals are exceptionally senstive to sound and its direction so they can be very alert to what is coming their way. So the faster the pelet the better I think.
A.G
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
One thing that gets me with these tests is that terracotta wax just isn't flesh & bone... Just simply down to the fact you can mold it with your hands means it's very different. So I don't understand how this can be used as a reliable test substrate at all, it's bound to react differently to a pellet passing through than a rabbits head.
It's a bit like saying I'm going to test this rope strength using a different type of rope to the one I'm doing the test for !!!!??
"corners should be round"
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A rabbits head creates even less resistance than the wax so produces even less braking effect on a heavy pellet than the wax does, so the impact velocity and the amount of energy dumped is even more important, what the wax shows, unlike ballistic gel which is elastic so closes up, is the actual cavity the pellet creates, the bigger the cavity the greater the trauma that is caused, a good example was the .20 pellet which heavier than a .177 but only slightly larger in surface area it's core was extremely small, it took most of it's energy with it, and that's exactly what you don't want, ideally you want the hollowpoint or wadcutter, but as we all know few of these pellets will group at longer ranges.One thing that gets me with these tests is that terracotta wax just isn't flesh & bone... Just simply down to the fact you can mold it with your hands means it's very different. So I don't understand how this can be used as a reliable test substrate at all, it's bound to react differently to a pellet passing through than a rabbits head.
It's a bit like saying I'm going to test this rope strength using a different type of rope to the one I'm doing the test for !!!!??
But even then, because the energy levels are so low, because the rabbit your shooting has very little resistance to the pellet, shot placement is the critical function, and the flatter flying light pellet is more forgiving than the slower more looping trajectory of the heavy, when you then add in the pellet creating more impact damage and getting there faster the choice is clear.
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