Webley Premier now repaired after seizing up from neatsfoot oil

[andrewM]

Many readers were interested in the report I filed here:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-neatsfoot-oil

Basically, after introducing a drop of neatsfoot oil into the transfer port, the cocking lever became so stiff that the pistol would not cock. I then injected several drops of weboil, but that made no difference.

The pistol was stripped (it was difficult to open the cylinder-head but a blow torch finally released it) and the cylinder was cleaned, along with the piston and synthetic washer. For good measure, I cleaned the spring and spring guide. I used a rag, methylated spirits (following advice of a respondent, here), plus WD40, plus Brasso for the piston. The washer was removed and cleaned with a dry cloth.

Finally, I provided a light smear of Abbey gun grease, LT2, to the spring.

I re-assembled the pistol but the cocking lever remained stiff. I therefore disassembled the pistol again and, with a measure of desperation, applied a rather greater measure of Abbey LT2 grease. Re-assembling the pistol, I discovered the cocking lever was a little looser. Disassembling the pistol twice more, I introduced additional grease and to the piston head as well.

Finally, the pistol was again operating as it had been, without difficulty, and was again smooth to cock.

Conclusion: I introduced neatsfoot because, to the best of my knowledge, the pistol had not been lubricated since new (1975) and had been stored for decades. I suspect the neatsfoot diluted the original grease on the washer/piston and also cleaned it from the washer/piston. The addition of weboil probably exacerbated this process. This caused the dry washer to meet resistance against the cylinder upon cocking.

The reintroduction of LT2 grease rectified the problem and this suggests that this pistol and its synthetic washer operate on grease, not on oil.

Readers experiencing similar difficulties would be advised to use a grease similar to the above instead of oil. Certainly, they should be wary before injecting any oil into the transfer port.

I wonder what is used for air rifles with similar synthetic washers? Perhaps grease is sufficient.

Rgds
A

[abellringer]

Neatsfoot oil is usually only applied to leather products, ie piston washers as on say a W & S MKIII / Falcon / Jaguar or any gun with a leather piston washer. I have never come across anyone recommending neatsfoot oil on synthetic washers. Can I ask the question, why did you use neatsfoot on a known synthetic seal ? I have never known this use before as I'm sure lots of seasoned 'repairers' have never known it either. It is however an interesting reaction and I'm sure a warning to others; just glad you managed to recover the situation and restore the pistol, well done for that.
abellringer

[gingernut]

I don't think you can be blamed for doing what you thought was right.
I've seen this oil Recommended for old pistols.

In general internet /folklore advice needs caution.

Lots of people say you can remove rust from old guns using wire wool and oil.
You certainly can but then see what you are left with!

[andrewM]

Neatsfoot oil is usually only applied to leather products, ie piston washers as on say a W & S MKIII / Falcon / Jaguar or any gun with a leather piston washer. I have never come across anyone recommending neatsfoot oil on synthetic washers. Can I ask the question, why did you use neatsfoot on a known synthetic seal ? I have never known this use before as I'm sure lots of seasoned 'repairers' have never known it either. It is however an interesting reaction and I'm sure a warning to others; just glad you managed to recover the situation and restore the pistol, well done for that.
abellringer

Thanks abellringer. To answer your question, I did not know that the Premier had a synthetic washer, naturally presuming it was leather since it was manufactured in 1975. Otherwise, I would have been more cautious. As Gingernut observed, it was an old pistol and I had no idea synthetic washers were used in those days.

Out of curiosity, what does one use for a synthetic washer? Clearly, stripping the gun and introducing grease is one option but that is time-consuming. Is there an alternative?

As you say, it is a warning to others.

Rgds
A

[Mr. Gen]

silicone oil on synthetic washers, anything else will diesel. polishing the tube will help as well. LT2 on metal to metal contact and don't polish if you can avoid it as the grease will slide off if the surface is too highly polished.

That said all my webley pistols get a drop of motor oil and fired regularly as God intended

[eyebull]

..silicone oil on synthetic washers, anything else will diesel...

While in theory silcone lubricant is good for synthetic-to-metal contact, in practice silicon oil may well find its way to other parts of the gun, where it can destroy metal-to-metal contact surfaces in short order.
For safety's sake, I would avoid silicon lubricants entirely.

A light smear of molybdenum grease on the sides of the piston seal (not the face), and the spring - as is common practice with modern spring rifles and pistols - will be sufficient.
And if it is kept away from the piston face, dieseling - if any - should be minimal.

[Mr. Gen]

While in theory silcone lubricant is good for synthetic-to-metal contact, in practice silicon oil may well find its way to other parts of the gun, where it can destroy metal-to-metal contact surfaces in short order.
For safety's sake, I would avoid silicon lubricants entirely.

A light smear of molybdenum grease on the sides of the piston seal (not the face), and the spring - as is common practice with modern spring rifles and pistols - will be sufficient.
And if it is kept away from the piston face, dieseling - if any - should be minimal.

I always put a smear of silicon oil on the seal before the piston goes back in - that is most certainly not enough to get anywhere else inside the gun.

LT2 on the piston seal will get onto the face very quickly, as you cock the gun it is transfers onto the tube wall and then when you fire the gun the seal does its job correctly and scrapes that LT2 forward onto the piston face, where it will diesel. I only put LT2 on the piston skirt if the stroke is short enough to prevent transference into the tube.

Most of my expensive springers have synthetic bearings on the piston to avoid having to use grease and having to clean the piston out too often.