Airguns seized at shows

[Mark D]

I posted the comment to make other collector’s aware. never said it was the police clampdown it s the home office and not an isolated to just one person its happening at other big fairs I have told all i know . one of the guns was a gat gun, all of them legal and his own old guns .if i was at mavlen that day selling some bits i dont use any more i d be in the same boat thats why i posted to make people aware .post in collector’s corner thinking people are more grown up .

Try reading your first post, without the privilege of knowing what you know. Hardly an insightful or concise post was it!

Strange that no other collectors that frequent these fairs and post here have mentioned this.

[Geezer]

You can still (12 years after the VCRA) find antique/second-hand/militaria dealers who sell the odd airgun, blithely unaware that they are breaking the law (though probably doing no harm to public safety) and need to be RFDs to sell post-39 airguns through their business.

Then there are private individuals selling bits of their collection. Who don't need a RFD.

There is a grey area. The private individual who both buys and sells a lot, and who might be judged to be running a business.

Which category does the case you mention fall into?

[webman]

I would like to thank splosh! for bringing this to the attention of BBS members, and feel that there have been some less than helpful comments posted. Maybe we need clarification of the position for anyone who sells from a table at a Fair etc.

[slug-gun]

As Geezer says no offences are committed and nor is there a requirement to hold a RFD if you are NOT selling by way of a trade or business.
If a COLLECTOR is disposing of surplus items as part of the general management of his collection then that is fine, irrespective of where he is doing it.
He may even be making losses.
The difficulty arises of course is PROVING that you are merely a collector, on a Sunday morning at a major arms fair, when you are surrounded by out and out dealers. Not really that easy if the Firearms Officer wants to be difficult.

You would have to pursue it in court I suppose and persuade the bench you were simply a collector thinning out?
Best advice it would seem is not to stall at an Arms Fair unless you have an RFD, even though it might not be technically required?

Melbourne is an exception because it is clearly stated that no traders are allowed.

[splosh!]

Try reading your first post, without the privilege of knowing what you know. Hardly an insightful or concise post was it!

Strange that no other collectors that frequent these fairs and post here have mentioned this.

what are your saying i should say nothing, its heads up of what is happening . now go away and annoy someone else im not responding to you again

[JMH123]

what are your saying i should say nothing, its heads up of what is happening . now go away and annoy someone else im not responding to you again

I think all he is saying is you might have considered your original post a bit more, before actually posting it. That could have been better all round.

[splosh!]

I think all he is saying is you might have considered your original post a bit more, before actually posting it. That could have been better all round.

why ? it states what i wanted to say .

[Papa g]

In the last few months there has been a team going around shows and militaria fairs seizing air guns from sellers with no rfd i know of collector’s disposing of some of there collection locally to me and have been seized and handed to west mercia Police .No charge and no chance of getting guns back is what they have been told

Just to let you know, your heads up is most appreciated this end,I see it as a genuine call for concern on your behalf. Fair play to you!
Regards Graham

[bangers]

Sadly I was at the Malvern fair when the nca jumped on the chap in question it was very embarrassing for the bloke and the officers were to say the least rude, not only to the chap but to all who were at the stand. The bloke has/had been going to Malvern for years and NEVER caused any bother or ripped anyone off but as I later read in a well known rag he was selling without a rfd license but it is on going with now I believe basc and sportsman association. They took all of his rifles and pistols and said he could appeal but was not to hold his breath as it would take at least 6 months before they would look at it.

[mel h]

It can be argued that it's a stupid regulation but the law says that anyone selling modern airguns 'by way of trade' needs to be a RFD. I see a couple of guys quite often at antique / fleamarket locations who are clearly ignoring the law and claim to be collectors disposing of surplus items. If people keep doing this it will not go un-noticed and will not do any good for any of us. If they lose their stock, they have only themselves to blame.

[guy]

In the last few months there has been a team going around shows and militaria fairs seizing air guns from sellers with no rfd i know of collector’s disposing of some of there collection locally to me and have been seized and handed to west mercia Police .No charge and no chance of getting guns back is what they have been told

hmmm.... would it be that bell end Adam or sharpie? either are well known at the arms fairs for dealing........ even though they profess their innocence of being a dealer? think the catch phrase" yea but I have got to make a profit on it" kinda gives it away a bit........

[Troubledshooter]

Sadly I was at the Malvern fair when the nca jumped on the chap in question it was very embarrassing for the bloke and the officers were to say the least rude, not only to the chap but to all who were at the stand. The bloke has/had been going to Malvern for years and NEVER caused any bother or ripped anyone off but as I later read in a well known rag he was selling without a rfd license but it is on going with now I believe basc and sportsman association. They took all of his rifles and pistols and said he could appeal but was not to hold his breath as it would take at least 6 months before they would look at it.

I think the highlighted parts explain everything; he was a trader selling without an RFD licence.
If these facts had been included in the initial post, it would have made the situation clear from the start.

[chieffool]

Perhaps, just as logically, the fact that someone has acquired and stocked a STALL is arguably 'proof' of trading? Within such an instance, even the existence of a single airgun amongst the other items on display for sale would then be a contravention. I would suggest that if the enforcement within any particular area of the country were pursued, no definition of frequency (eg 12 a year) would be necessary.

[gingernut]

Still it's fine to sell bayonets and swords.
Which have no purpose other than to dispose of other human beings.

[Lakey]

"Death by a thousand cuts" The authorities are slowly but surely making it harder and harder to pursue our chosen legitimate hobby.

It has always been a "Grey area" when it comes to the divide between a person legitimately disposing of parts of his collection, and someone who regularly turns up a fairs selling large numbers of airguns under the guise of "only being a collector".

What we dont know is how long the authorities had been monitoring his activities before they made their move, and what proportion of the guns were post 1939.

Still a very worrying new development. I wonder if all the local auction houses up and down the land who feature odd rusting "airguns" in their house clearance sales are RFD registered ? If they are not, then they would definitely be braking the law, since they are definitely trading those guns for profit as part of an established business.

Food for thought........