Airguns seized at shows

[Mark D]

Well, that was a bit of a struggle Thanks to those who made a positive input, particularly Vic T with his first hand experience. Lets hope that no legitimate collectors thinning out or disposing of parts of their collections get caught up in this.

[RobinC]

The OP has raised an issue that all who collect and sell on, (or trade?) should be aware of. There is a line where you may call it collecting and moving on, but the law calls it trading. And if its trading, it requires an RFD, no discussion on rights and wrongs, IT'S THE LAW, and has been for some while.

The Firearms acts are generaly clear in these areas, and the definitions of RFD requirements are also clear in the act, I think the post by Vic clarifies the situation, and those who purport to be collectors and actualy trade at shows, or post on line, should study the Firearms act, best, take guidance legaly, or consult their local FA dept (who I have always found to be completely helpfull and professional), and be very sure they are operating with in the law, and not merely skirting, or ignoring it.

If you are trading, the aquisition of an air gun RFD is not a complex or expensive process to those of the right integrity, so go apply for one. There is a requirement that you MUST be operating as a business, and they will generaly refuse applications from pure collectors as RFDs. If the FA dept does not believe you meet the requirement of carrying on a business, and are just a collector they will tell you.

[Airsporter1st]

Thank you for the back up on this post.Feel im getting slated for bring it up will keep stum in future

That will be a better contribution than you've made so far.

[kamyonsofor]

Interesting post, I know its a bit late and some one else may have pointed out Melbourne Fayre is on today and stipulates no trade ,that could be ripe for a visit.Then again I suppose these people glean the papers etc like HMRC do and start visiting houses,unregistered businesses sale records etc ,I have to say most of my purchases have been cash whether private or trade .

[Shed tuner]

If you are trading, the aquisition of an air gun RFD is not a complex or expensive process to those of the right integrity, so go apply for one. There is a requirement that you MUST be operating as a business, and they will generaly refuse applications from pure collectors as RFDs. If the FA dept does not believe you meet the requirement of carrying on a business, and are just a collector they will tell you.

I wonder if that would form a legitimate defence in the event of a collector thinning out their collection.. i.e. "I applied for an RFD, but was told that I didn't need one"...

[gingernut]

Trade or business is not hard to suspect/prove.

If you sell at a venue but are then seen to buy guns off people who come to your table.
If you sell on a regular basis over a few months or at a few venues etc.

I suspect the Aiuthorities are more concerned about who non RFDs are selling to at these venues.
And what they are selling.
Having a table full of newish BB pistols would be asking for it.

[Hsing-ee]

Call me innocent, but aren't the people who sell at these events generally de facto dealers (i.e. people looking to make money on their buying and selling) rather than enthusiasts just passing on things?

[Bob Brown]

In the last six months or so,hundreds of facebook air rifle groups have vanished.
These groups were set up for people to buy and sell airguns,and had been doing so for several years.
All of a sudden the groups started to disapear,dozens of them every day.
I run a group and have survived the cull,because i dont allow the sale of air rifles,only scopes.
I wonder if this is any way related to this crack down?.

[derekj]

It's just too dangerous for them to go to Battersea, Bermondsey, Tottenham, Harlesden gun peddling criminality breeding ground estates and bang on some doors. Can you imagine how long they'd last? Much too easier to harass and intimidate decent folk who're trying to make a few bob.

[T 20]

If we could just stay on topic gentlemen it would be appreciated.

And it would probably be a good idea to bear in mind the fact that two admin members are of Romany descent.


Carry on.




All the best Mick

[splosh!]

That will be a better contribution than you've made so far.

I told all i know what you problem ?

[Binners]

Please reply to my pm

[edbear2]

I know the O.P. too and will vouch for him, and my experience at Malvern in the past where I know at least 3 regular sellers is that 2 have had hassle from a person who was accompanied by the police who normally circulate at these fairs. In both cases they are collectors who are selling guns that they have replaced with better examples, or are thinning out. In both cases they were told roughly "We have been watching you and you regularly sell weapons here (bear in mind there are 9-10 fairs a year only) ...Because of this we are warning you that you may need a RFD to carry, or you may be in trouble in future / may be consequences".

Now both these sellers sell all sorts of tools / various items, but do normally have maybe 4-5 air rifles of various vintage and various related stuff as well, their pitches are not 100% weapons/ militaria related like some I have seen.

I have not been to any fairs this year or had the chance to speak to either, so cannot add to the comments about stuff being taken, but can catagorically say that sellers had be visited by some plain clothed person who spoke to them as above.



ATB, Ed

[SRV1]

In all fairness to splosh, he may or may not have had all the details, but, his heads up have led to more detailed information, which may, or may not, have come up for more discussion and confirmation that it looks like it is a real situation to be made aware of.....

Best regards......

[gingernut]

I agree Splosh bashing is a bit unfair.

We now know this can happen and that's a valuable heads up.
I am thinking about ways of moving a few Collectables on so pretty relevant to me.