Airguns seized at shows

[GRAZY]

I also think we are all better informed for being made awere of the legal standing on this. It has been a useful heads up, thanks to all who have added in a positive way to the post.

[Gareth W-B]

I also think we are all better informed for being made awere of the legal standing on this. It has been a useful heads up, thanks to all who have added in a positive way to the post.

Here booming here. I for one will note most on this thread and treat it as a reality wake-up call. Thanks to all.

[angrybear]

Read this thread as the title grabbed my attention.

What people often don't know/understand is that if you buy & sell more than X number of items in a year then you are considered to be "trading" in that item, primarily for tax purposes, so not only airguns for example there is also a limit on the number of vehicles you can buy/sell in a year, more than 6 and it makes you a dealer & liable to pay tax.

I would think it highly possible that this is HMRC targeting someone they believe to be a trader claiming to be a private collector.

[harvey_s]

Whilst the OP should be thanked for starting the thread, the real thanks should go to Vic T for putting the meat on the bones of the issue.
I guess that if you are buying a trader's table placement at a fair - you have defined yourself as a trader and thereafter its going to get difficult if you haven't completed the paperwork...which having had a very quick glance at the opening page doesn't seem too off-putting.... https://www.gov.uk/register-as-a-firearms-dealer

[mel h]

Still it's fine to sell bayonets and swords.
Which have no purpose other than to dispose of other human beings.

Well let's not take half measures here, we may as well include kitchen knives, firewood axes, carpenter's chisels, and the dozens of other inanimate objects that have regularly been used to harm people for longer than anyone can remember.

[gingernut]

Whilst the OP should be thanked for starting the thread, the real thanks should go to Vic T for putting the meat on the bones of the issue.
I guess that if you are buying a trader's table placement at a fair - you have defined yourself as a trader and thereafter its going to get difficult if you haven't completed the paperwork...which having had a very quick glance at the opening page doesn't seem too off-putting.... https://www.gov.uk/register-as-a-firearms-dealer

Having a table at an Arms Fair to sell your own airguns collection isn't a trade or business and therefore you do not have to be an RFD.
Just as selling three family cars doesn't make you a motor trader.

It was made clear at Bisley that only RFDs could sell airguns.

But events like Melbourne are clearly ok.
I would be happy to arrange such an event at our shoot but we don't have the facilities.

[Mr. Gen]

Well let's not take half measures here, we may as well include kitchen knives, firewood axes, carpenter's chisels, and the dozens of other inanimate objects that have regularly been used to harm people for longer than anyone can remember.

It wasn't that many years ago that a lively negotiation I had at Nottingham arms fair over a job lot of webley pistols was finalized when the trader sweetened the deal with a brass knuckleduster with questionable WW1 provenance and I think it was the same day that someone stabbed themselves with a spike bayonet in the leg much to the St John's delight. Happy days...

[Binners]

Although I am very grateful to 'Splosh' for mentioning the problem that occurred at Malvern recently, I now need to clarify the LEGAL situation regarding traders and private sellers of air guns.

As far as Surrey Police are concerned, anyone buying or selling guns as a way of 'TRADE OR BUSINESS' must be a Registered Firearms Dealer. RFD's that trade away from their home location have to apply for 'ADDITIONAL PLACE OF BUSINESS' permission from the area Police Force for that event and several have already applied and received their permits.

PRIVATE COLLECTORS can legally sell or swap guns from their own personal collection at GUN FAIRS.

Both RFD and Private Collectors will have tables along with Militaria Collectors at KEMPTON PARK on SUNDAY 25TH JUNE 2017.

I have been in regular contact with Surrey Police and have been given permission to proceed on this basis and have also been advised that a Test Range could also be set up. However, that won't be happening......

I am investing a lot of time, money and effort to put this event on and need bad publicity like a hole in the head. Our sport and collecting fairs are diminishing annually. I hope to receive positive support from the members on here and who knows, we may get to keep Airgunning alive in the future.

[GSMN1]

Just to let you know, your heads up is most appreciated this end,I see it as a genuine call for concern on your behalf. Fair play to you!
Regards Graham

Here here. Forewarned is forearmed and the debate has been thorough enough to make us all a bit wiser and warier. Well done splosh.

[gingernut]

I have a table at Kempton which I'm sharing with young Baz.

We are both collectors ,enthusiasts and retired.

Binners has kept the Local Constabulary well informed and taken advice from them.
I'm sure there will be no problems of the nature mentioned in this thread.

Looking forward to what should be a great day out!

[bighit]

In the last six months or so,hundreds of facebook air rifle groups have vanished.
These groups were set up for people to buy and sell airguns,and had been doing so for several years.
All of a sudden the groups started to disapear,dozens of them every day.
I run a group and have survived the cull,because i dont allow the sale of air rifles,only scopes.
I wonder if this is any way related to this crack down?.

do you think it might be due to this?
What is considered a firearm in the list of regulated goods in Facebook’s Community Standards?

share
Share article
The purchase, sale or trade of firearms, ammunition and explosives between private individuals isn't allowed on Facebook. This includes:
Rifles
Shotguns
Machine guns
Handguns
Pistols
Revolvers
Firearm receivers
Antique guns
Black powder firearms
Muzzle-loading firearms
BB guns
Airsoft guns
Air guns
Air rifles
Paintball markers
Firearm replicas
Non-functioning firearms
Curios and relics
Destructive devices such as bombs, grenades, rockets, missiles or mines
We understand that some of these items may not be legally regulated everywhere people use Facebook. In order to enforce our policies as fairly and consistently as possible, we use one broad set of standards for the entire Facebook community.

[gingernut]

That's a pain when you need to sell the odd mine.

[edbear2]

That's a pain when you need to sell the odd mine.

....Can't think of mines now without;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg

ATB, Ed

[gingernut]

Of course!
He was a genuine collector.

[T 20]

Of course!
He was a genuine collector.

Yarp.