Leather piston washers and lube

[yorkiets]

What is the current best option for lubricating leather piston seals?

I assume some none combustible lube would be best?

Google seems to be unsure and silicone keeps popping up - surely not?

[Phil Russell]

Following some old advice, I normally use neatsfoot oil. I bought a 500ml tin from a horse tack shop some years ago and it seems very good.
I have tried good old motor oil (20/50 etc) and again it was good but was only really for the very low powered plinkers; not really recommended for higher powered rifles due to dieseling.
Mind you (a little off topic) I once relubed a Webley Service with modern lubes and the performance was dire. I then relubed using motor oil and performance was restored to as required .. the rifle has piston rings.
Silicon oil ... I have used this but tend not to now as I have a jar of neatsfoot to hand to soak washers in.
I thing Webley oils of old are simple motor grade oils (SAE30??) ... Weblube etc but may be wrong.
A tip I was shown once to get good oil penetration into the washer was to rig up a simple vacuum device based on a brake bleed kit. With the washer in the oil and a partial vacuum established, the oil penetrates the washer much more quickly.
Cheers, Phil

[andrewM]

This thread is similar to one I began myself, some two or three weeks ago but only posted on the 'collectables' section of this site.

There seems to be no set view but I think there are a number of guidelines:

1 Avoid silicon oil. It seizes up metal moving parts and there are some horror stories relating to air guns. Whilst it might be acceptable for leather washers, the fear is that it will migrate to other parts of the gun.

2 Neatsfoot appears to have a significant following and appears not to explode under high pressure. A local gunsmith uses it and recently commented: "I tend to use Neatsfoot only on new or very old dry leather. You can mix mineral oil with neatsfoot treated leather without a problem. Neatsfoot is actually offered for sale as' Neatsfoot Compound' which is a blend of neatsfoot and mineral oil. Neatsfoot does not go solid at room or low temperatures - put it in the fridge and it will not set or go cloudy like other animal fats. Put it in the freezer and it will not go solid but just slightly jellified."

3 Some people use an SAE30. One or two drops should be sufficient after 1000 shots.

4 Some people use SM50, which is a blend of mineral and silicon oil but others are wary of the silicon component. I do not know if the blend separates into its component parts. I would like to know if there are adverse consequences from SM50.

5 Some use 3 in 1 but I rather think the dieseling properties of this oil are rather higher under pressure.

It is an interesting topic and it would be pleasing to reach a consensus of opinion but I fear that is unlikely.

Rgds
Andrew.

[yorkiets]

Thanks Phil and Andrew.

It seemed odd that it was so unclear when I googled it, but neatsfoot and silicone cropped up again and again.

I think I'll try and source some neatsfoot and give it a go. I've just ordered a new leather seal for an old BSA so I guess it will need to soak for a while. The vacuum idea seems like a neat one, Phil. I'm sure we have a vacuum bagging device for food somewhere. Worth a try.

[clarky]

Thanks Phil and Andrew.

It seemed odd that it was so unclear when I googled it, but neatsfoot and silicone cropped up again and again.

I think I'll try and source some neatsfoot and give it a go. I've just ordered a new leather seal for an old BSA so I guess it will need to soak for a while. The vacuum idea seems like a neat one, Phil. I'm sure we have a vacuum bagging device for food somewhere. Worth a try.

I have been using neats foot from John knibbs in 53s for years ....works perfectly at restoring and maintaining the washers. A good alternative is Bisley airgun oil....It was tested for such, being a mineral based oil with no naughty penetrating agents like what you get in 3 in 1.

Never go anywhere near anything Silicone....you been warned!

[eyebull]

Someone in the Collectables section has a bad experience with neatsfoot seizing up one of his guns, in light of that I would avoid it as much as silicone.

[yorkiets]

Someone in the Collectables section has a bad experience with neatsfoot seizing up one of his guns, in light of that I would avoid it as much as silicone.

Oh...

Plan B then.

Bisley airgun oil as a safe bet?

[T 20]

Someone in the Collectables section has a bad experience with neatsfoot seizing up one of his guns, in light of that I would avoid it as much as silicone.

He only had a bad experience because he used Neatsfoot oil on a synthetic seal. :-

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....82#post7213382



All the best Mick

[clarky]

Someone in the Collectables section has a bad experience with neatsfoot seizing up one of his guns, in light of that I would avoid it as much as silicone.

Never had a problem but the problem with Neatsfoot ...if there is one....is it reacts badly with silicones.
The fellow probably failed to clean out the awful moly that was in it.

[junglie]

"good oil" brand hempseed oil from sainsburys or tescos, seriously it deisels less than any other i've tried & is lovely on salads too! I always lube my cylinders with dry slide first too.

[yorkiets]

Thanks everyone for the input.

Neatsfoot it is.

[DCL_dave]

This thread is similar to one I began myself, some two or three weeks ago but only posted on the 'collectables' section of this site.

There seems to be no set view but I think there are a number of guidelines:

1 Avoid silicon oil. It seizes up metal moving parts and there are some horror stories relating to air guns. Whilst it might be acceptable for leather washers, the fear is that it will migrate to other parts of the gun.

2 Neatsfoot appears to have a significant following and appears not to explode under high pressure. A local gunsmith uses it and recently commented: "I tend to use Neatsfoot only on new or very old dry leather. You can mix mineral oil with neatsfoot treated leather without a problem. Neatsfoot is actually offered for sale as' Neatsfoot Compound' which is a blend of neatsfoot and mineral oil. Neatsfoot does not go solid at room or low temperatures - put it in the fridge and it will not set or go cloudy like other animal fats. Put it in the freezer and it will not go solid but just slightly jellified."

3 Some people use an SAE30. One or two drops should be sufficient after 1000 shots.

4 Some people use SM50, which is a blend of mineral and silicon oil but others are wary of the silicon component. I do not know if the blend separates into its component parts. I would like to know if there are adverse consequences from SM50.

5 Some use 3 in 1 but I rather think the dieseling properties of this oil are rather higher under pressure.

It is an interesting topic and it would be pleasing to reach a consensus of opinion but I fear that is unlikely.

Rgds
Andrew.

Hi Andrew,

I know it is a quote from your local gunsmith but I don't think the highlighted text re. neatsfoot is quite correct...it can go quite solid if old enough and cold enough ...here is a pic of a tin of 1/2" leather breech seals suspended in old neatsfoot oil, OK...that neatsfoot oil is at least 7 or 8 years old and probably older but the seals have only been in it for about 3 years...and yes, it has started to soften having been brought in from the cold shed for the pic. I don't know for sure but I reckon it would go quite solid if frozen?... I am going to bung it in the freezer for a while to see what happens, will take another pic and post it in a while.


EDIT: pic of frozen neatsfoot oil...waxy and oily but still, quite solid.

...and here is a pic of it having warmed up a bit...

Pedant moment over

[max headroom]

Johsons wax.

[andrewM]

Someone in the Collectables section has a bad experience with neatsfoot seizing up one of his guns, in light of that I would avoid it as much as silicone.

Yes, that was me but it was a rather abnormal situation. As I explained earlier, I introduced neatsfoot into a transfer port where there was a synthetic washer; I had hitherto believed it to be a leather washer. The neatsfoot cleaned away the grease and the washer could not then operate. I cleaned the piston, washer and cylinder and then introduced fresh LT2 grease and all was well. Had I introduced 3 in 1 or anything else, the same would have occurred for the same reason.

DCL-dave has produced some interesting photographs but perhaps it depends upon the neatsfoot. My local gunsmith says that one is actually using a 'neatsfoot compound', which is mineral oil and neatsfoot. Probably, neatsfoot alone would solidify in cold weather. I think one has to be careful to ensure it is neatsoot compound, which includes mineral oil. That should not solidify.

Kind rgds
A

[T 20]

Johsons wax.

I once read of an old gunsmith using Lard --- not so daft as it sounds really.