Brummie BSA Springers

[evert]

Were they ?
Over sprung at 10.5 in 22, shit trigger, terrible quality stock bolts that had a habit of snapping ....

How does one determine if a gun is "over sprung"?

[derekj]

How does one determine if a gun is "over sprung"?

Excessive pre load and the feel of a main spring binding as you engage the sear during cocking. However the .22 BSA Airsporter RB and Mercury Challenger I had made 11ft/lb with hardly any spring; which was the most positive thing about these rifles I could find.

[junglie]

I've owned several BSA's including Airsporter RB2 .22 and Mercury Challenger .22 Mercury S .177. Lovely to look at, well balanced, good build quality and make 12ftlb comfortably(.22). The triggers are described as very agricultural at best, and as a consequence render the rifle's inaccurate. My .22 HW77k will hit 1/2" spinners and similar size groups at 30 metres regularly.
The 1990's BSA's on the other hand will struggle to even get close to Weihrauch or Diana accuracy and so are better suited to 1 1/2" spinners and groups at 30 metres. However, my .177 AA TX200SR and Pro Sport will hit 10mm groups at 30 metres supported which goes to show that you don't need a German spring piston rifle for accurate shooting.

Every airsporter/mercury i've shot or owned has had poor feeling triggers, usually due to some berk winding in the adjuster screw till it locks(which makes the let off heavier) However they've all been perfectly adequate after adjusting & none needed tuning unlike every lightning i've had through my hands. The barrels could be a bit hit & miss in quality in bsa's of late 80's early 90's though especially in lightnings. My current challenger barrel matches my 50s hw for accuracy easily & to my surprise shoots most pellets very well indeed.

[Ninapuppy]

The HW's of the time beat the BSA in accuracy possibly because they weight 2KG more so soaked up the recoil!!
Great for paper punching or plinking but definitely need a sling for the field The HW were a pig to lug round all day, very accurate and well made but a pig never the less.
The BSA guns were lighter but less accurate (perhaps ?) . I have a Brum made BSA supersport. I only shoot out to 25 meters (hunt) and its as good as HW offerings for that and just as accurate , the safety is re settable and dosn't click loudly when released unlike the HW 's. It also diddnt eat the cylindfer when the cocking arm attacked it unlike my HW99s which did !
Recent HW offerings generally need a fettle to get the best accuracy out of them any way
Id say a old Super sports not too bad a gun

[PCPShooter]

BSA barrels can be good, can be bad. They can be put in correct way round, or back to front. If you are lucky you can even find some pcp's with re blued barrels where the original s/n appear to have ben filed off () 'from' factory ! Some in right way round, some not !

Springer wise imo:
Superstar - Good
Airsporter RB s Good
Late Mercury's Good
Others - pants, ranging from a bit ropey, to shite, some design floored (over sprung from scratch for 12ftlb), others just piss poor QC

I like BSA, I have several of their pcp's. They are extremely pellet fussy in 177, and sometimes 22 too -
I think that getting a designer to design them was a great move after the springers, pity they didn't follow the designs more accurately or find better manufacturing compromises sometimes though -

[Jimny4x4]

Are all BSA springers less than optimal? Or can an older, Brummie BSA be fettled to make it better?

Don't laugh, but I've always fancied a Lightning (along with others) and I wonder if a cheap one would make a worthwhile project.

Thoughts?

Rob.

Rob there are plenty of good BSA's out there and many will argue that 'less than optimal' is too broad a generalisation . Factory guns are always lacking something and less than optimal could apply to anything by any maker especially if you go down the road of custom tuning Springers and have only ever owned and shot with them first .
A 90's Airsporter RB2 , Lightning or Superstar or indeed Mercury are all fine guns . Custom tuning is great but ..not always a guarantee - once had me a tuned to death springer by a well known tuning shop - hardest thing to cock , underpower yet recoil seemed the same as my other same period kit .

[Artfull-Bodger]

Rob there are plenty of good BSA's out there and many will argue that 'less than optimal' is too broad a generalisation . Factory guns are always lacking something and less than optimal could apply to anything by any maker especially if you go down the road of custom tuning Springers and have only ever owned and shot with them first .
A 90's Airsporter RB2 , Lightning or Superstar or indeed Mercury are all fine guns . Custom tuning is great but ..not always a guarantee - once had me a tuned to death springer by a well known tuning shop - hardest thing to cock , underpower yet recoil seemed the same as my other same period kit .

Should have taken it back, a well sorted springer is hands down superior to the original!

[Artfull-Bodger]

How does one determine if a gun is "over sprung"?

Some rifles due to bore/stroke ratio's, transfer port length and diameter and piston weight coupled to seal design require excessive spring compression to produce the required velocities, end result is a stiff to cock snappy unpleasant rifle to shoot.

A prime example of this is the Mercury/Airsporter, short stroke with 28mm bore and huge preload along with an O ring seal!

To improve it you lighten the piston, discard the spacer, shorten the piston head by 6mm and machine it to accept a Diana 28mm seal, make up a top hat, new spring guide that is inset into the trigger block and add a rotary bearing on the spring guide to eliminate spring torque, then you find you can use a much softer spring to produce 11ftlbs with ease and end up with a far superior firing cycle, smooth and quick with little sight picture movement!

[Blackrider]

I've owned several BSA's including Airsporter RB2 .22 and Mercury Challenger .22 Mercury S .177. Lovely to look at, well balanced, good build quality and make 12ftlb comfortably(.22). The triggers are described as very agricultural at best, and as a consequence render the rifle's inaccurate. My .22 HW77k will hit 1/2" spinners and similar size groups at 30 metres regularly.
The 1990's BSA's on the other hand will struggle to even get close to Weihrauch or Diana accuracy and so are better suited to 1 1/2" spinners and groups at 30 metres. However, my .177 AA TX200SR and Pro Sport will hit 10mm groups at 30 metres supported which goes to show that you don't need a German spring piston rifle for accurate shooting.

About sums it all up !

[derekj]

The barrel was fine, it was the sweep, build, trigger and quality of materials I had issues with

Quite right. There isn't or wasn't a BSA spring rifle that could live with an HW77, HW80 or HW35 never mind the Diana range or AA TX and PS series. The accuracy just isn't there nor a well engineered trigger or consistent build quality. They are mostly lovely to look at and to shoulder one is very easy like a fine side by side shotgun; the problems start when you try and hit small kill zones at 30 yards. I speak from personal experience, BSA spring piston rifles are barn yard guns, no more. Well that's my rose tinted spectacles firmly crushed

*Quick edit* Why was the Airsporter RB and Challenger rifles advertised with a 2 stage trigger when they clearly were not?

[piggy589]

I'm building another Meteor from gathered parts.

Wonder why I bother,the scrap man called round on thursday .

[Geezer]

Quite right. There isn't or wasn't a BSA spring rifle that could live with an HW77, HW80 or HW35 never mind the Diana range or AA TX and PS series. The accuracy just isn't there nor a well engineered trigger or consistent build quality. They are mostly lovely to look at and to shoulder one is very easy like a fine side by side shotgun; the problems start when you try and hit small kill zones at 30 yards. I speak from personal experience, BSA spring piston rifles are barn yard guns, no more. Well that's my rose tinted spectacles firmly crushed

*Quick edit* Why was the Airsporter RB and Challenger rifles advertised with a 2 stage trigger when they clearly were not?

It's a false two-stage isn't it? That is a single stage with an initial bit of play that gives the vague illusion of a proper two-stage.

[Portzy]

Just as a matter of interest but is this particular/specific BSA

http://bsaguns.co.uk/air-rifles/spri...-Tactical.aspx

Still made and readilly available and still is, (or always was), made in Birmingham.

[Artfull-Bodger]

It's a false two-stage isn't it? That is a single stage with an initial bit of play that gives the vague illusion of a proper two-stage.

What they did was the same as Webley on the later Exocet, they put a pivot in the trigger blade and a spring, so when the first stage is taken up all your doing is compressing a spring, no movement of the sear at all, just feels like a first stage.

[TonyL]

That's good to hear, can you repost this very comment onto every new HW99 thread that turns up please, that'll piss off TonyL

Pete

Pee me off? Not at all, Pete.

Every one to their own and all that.

Mine's a 99 though. Or a 95, 80, 77, 97, 98, 35, 30 etc etc!