New British Made Air Rifle

[derekj]

Never mind a new company, I think there would be a market for a new, high quality British break barrel from either the Air Arms or BSA stable. It wouldn't even need to be anything totally new or revolutionary, just a 25mm bore, sturdy barrel hinge and lock up and CD / Rekord stylee trigger and two latch rod lengths for UK / unlimited power markets....job done.

And be price set to within £500...oh and have good quality open sights too.

[Geezer]

If we are going to design a fantasy British break-barrel, while I would like it to have a trigger of the quality of the Rekord/CD, I would like a safety catch that comes on when the trigger is cocked, not slightly afterwards, is in the right place for easy use (protruding from the centre of the end cap) and that can be easily re-set?

And a scope-optimised stock, and an LW barrel.

Hm, what does that sound like?

[look no hands]

If we are going to design a fantasy British break-barrel, while I would like it to have a trigger of the quality of the Rekord/CD, I would like a safety catch that comes on when the trigger is cocked, not slightly afterwards, is in the right place for easy use (protruding from the centre of the end cap) and that can be easily re-set?

And a scope-optimised stock, and an LW barrel.

Hm, what does that sound like?

Either a Walther LGV or a Webley Longbow?

The only problem having a safety in the position you say or in the position like HW/AA have is they become a bit of a pain to flip off if you want to fit a thumbhole stock, I'd rather not have one.

Pete

[buttloaves]

If they could have knocked a couple of hundred quid off the Impact RM 100 would it have stole the show, at £595 i would still buy one i think they look stunning and would expect performance to match.

[RichardH]

If they could have knocked a couple of hundred quid off the Impact RM 100 would it have stole the show, at £595 i would still buy one i think they look stunning and would expect performance to match.

If a credible company had built that with a spring rather than gas strut it should have done well

Sadly all Impact created was an even smaller business with all of the downsides of the old Theoben guns.

[look no hands]

If a credible company had built that with a spring rather than gas strut it should have done well

Sadly all Impact created was an even smaller business with all of the downsides of the old Theoben guns.

What Impact should have done was offer their new range of rifles in either gasram or spring (same as Theoben should have done), the problem I saw was Theoben seemed to have this stigma about them and their rifles (not helped by the unhelpful woman on the phone), which seemed to stick around after their demise and lingered around the Impact camp, Impact shouldn't have broken the £500 price barrier for the break barrels when they started back up (considering how many cheap sub £200 rifles there are now and HW having a firm hold on the break barrel market), I'm hoping the engineering and build quality was there (I've not seen an Impact rifle in the flesh) but so was the old "dyed in the wool" rumors of leaking rams with horrid triggers that killed scopes (which they didn't dispel), the only difference I could see was a new stock design, a little internal fettling and higher price tag, there was no attempt to try and design or retro fit a better trigger setup (which has always been a talking point and stumbling block with rammers).

I know people are going to say that Impact was aiming for the luxury/expensive end of the market but they had so many problems (lack of stocks etc) on start up, they should have offered a bespoke custom service, where you choose what your rifle should have on it (calibre, barrel length, stock, ram or spring etc) and that may have taken off but in today's climate it may not of, you can never tell.

Pete

[Blackrider]

Did Impact offer left handed stock options, I don't believe they did ?

[Geezer]

Either a Walther LGV or a Webley Longbow?

The only problem having a safety in the position you say or in the position like HW/AA have is they become a bit of a pain to flip off if you want to fit a thumbhole stock, I'd rather not have one.

Pete

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

[look no hands]

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

So basically what you're saying is that a new British made springer will be doomed as the HW99 has already stolen the show BUT had AA or BSA (I won't say Webley as they were already gone before the 99 gained popularity) made a 99 spec rifle (without the gauling issue and a better stock) before HW did then it probably would be doing pretty well so far.

Pete

[Geezer]

So basically what you're saying is that a new British made springer will be doomed as the HW99 has already stolen the show BUT had AA or BSA (I won't say Webley as they were already gone before the 99 gained popularity) made a 99 spec rifle (without the gauling issue and a better stock) before HW did then it probably would be doing pretty well so far.

Pete

Yes, I - sadly - think I am saying that. Especially if you expand beyond the 50S/99 and include the 85/95 and 98. And include the "Walthers" and others as competition.

[look no hands]

Yes, I - sadly - think I am saying that. Especially if you expand beyond the 50S/99 and include the 85/95 and 98. And include the "Walthers" and others as competition.

Then I can fully understand where you are coming from and why AA don't want to produce another break barrel, especially after the flop of the Pro Elite (I remember seeing adverts in the mags selling them off for £219 new towards the end of their production), BSA on the other hand could produce a better rifle (I think every body knows and wishes that) as they already have a Break barrel platform but they won't/can't improve upon it because of Gamo holding them back.

The annoying thing is, is that Walther (or may be Umarex) took the plunge a few years ago and invested heavily into R&D and produced the new LGV/U range and although it had a bit of a shaky start, it's obviously payed off as they've improved the range and they are still being made, the only problem is, is the things are too damn heavy and are not direct competition for the HW99 or even 95.

So it looks like although we won the war, the Germans are winning now

Pete

[angrybear]

Yes, but the HW/AA safety is particularly poor ergonomically, whereas the options that actually work with a thumbhole are either poor mechanically (eg a simple trigger block cross bolt - which can be poor for lefties if not reversible) or in safety terms (those Gamo/Theoben/M-1 Garand things inside the trigger guard).

I agree on the wider point. If AA made a slightly longer Webley Longbow, I would definitely buy one. As would about 2-400 other people, most of whom are members on here. But after that, they would have a bunch of unsold rifles ready for "clearance special offers" at the big dealers. Which is what happened with the 12ft/lbs Tomahawk, and would have happened to the Longbow if Webley had not gone belly-up in 2005.

Where as I think the AA's safety catch is ergonomically superb and only bettered by the Theoben,
neither of which is a safety hazard in the slightest unless the user is stupid enough to stick their finger inside the trigger guard wearing heavy gloves that prevent "feel".

[Geezer]

Where as I think the AA's safety catch is ergonomically superb and only bettered by the Theoben,
neither of which is a safety hazard in the slightest unless the user is stupid enough to stick their finger inside the trigger guard wearing heavy gloves that prevent "feel".

Which I will respectfully disagree with.

Of course, an experienced, well trained, careful user is fine with almost any safety device but:

- on the HW, you have to shift the whole hand to disengage the safety then move it back to a firing position; this is inefficient;

- the sequence should be see target, acquire target while disengaging safety, finger on trigger, shoot; anything that encourages the trigger finger to get in the guard earlier than required is not desirable for the general user - it encourages those people to wander around with their finger on the trigger.

[bighit]

I can thumb the safety off on my hw99s without moving my hand on the rifle. Same on my nephews hw80k. Depends on the size of your hands I would say.

And on My theoben EVO I flick the safety off just as I'm about to take a shot. Not take it off then aim and pull the trigger.

Aim - put finger in the trigger area -flick finger forward and safety is off - pull finger back to squeeze the trigger.

All your doing is flicking the finger one way then pulling it back. It's simple .